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	<title>Comments on: Baptism as an act of humility</title>
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	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/08/01/baptism-as-an-act-of-humility/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Mark IV</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/08/01/baptism-as-an-act-of-humility/#comment-113400</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark IV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 22:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4032#comment-113400</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yesterday in my ward, three people bore their testimonies who are recent converts.  They all joined the Restoration within the past year or two, and they are all over the age of 30.

It was interesting to me that all three of them expressed a sense of surprise or bewilderment at their conversion.  They couldn&#039;t quite explain how it happened, even though they were very grateful that it had.  Two of them used the word *grace* to describe the unearned and undeserved gift they had so unexpectedly received.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yesterday in my ward, three people bore their testimonies who are recent converts.  They all joined the Restoration within the past year or two, and they are all over the age of 30.</p>
<p>It was interesting to me that all three of them expressed a sense of surprise or bewilderment at their conversion.  They couldn&#8217;t quite explain how it happened, even though they were very grateful that it had.  Two of them used the word *grace* to describe the unearned and undeserved gift they had so unexpectedly received.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Barney</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/08/01/baptism-as-an-act-of-humility/#comment-113399</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Barney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4032#comment-113399</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ardis, #11, I have often pondered your question.  I hope that I would have been baptized as an adult had I not grown up in the faith, but frankly I&#039;m skeptical.  I somehow can&#039;t imagine were I not already LDS letting two young men who knocked on my door in to tell me about their church.  Which means that I stand in awe of the adult convert who submits in such profound humility to be baptized.  And I&#039;m a little bit envious of such folks as well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardis, #11, I have often pondered your question.  I hope that I would have been baptized as an adult had I not grown up in the faith, but frankly I&#8217;m skeptical.  I somehow can&#8217;t imagine were I not already LDS letting two young men who knocked on my door in to tell me about their church.  Which means that I stand in awe of the adult convert who submits in such profound humility to be baptized.  And I&#8217;m a little bit envious of such folks as well.</p>
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		<title>By: The Right Trousers</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/08/01/baptism-as-an-act-of-humility/#comment-113398</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Right Trousers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 07:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4032#comment-113398</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t have anything to add, either, but I did want to thank *you*, John C., for starting this fantastic discussion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have anything to add, either, but I did want to thank *you*, John C., for starting this fantastic discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: John C.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/08/01/baptism-as-an-act-of-humility/#comment-113397</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John C.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 13:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4032#comment-113397</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for all your commentary.  I have nothing to add to it; I just like it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all your commentary.  I have nothing to add to it; I just like it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis E. Parshall</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/08/01/baptism-as-an-act-of-humility/#comment-113396</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ardis E. Parshall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4032#comment-113396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;As I have watched a number of convert baptisms over the last decade or so, I’ve been impressed by those adults who really get it, who have truly become converted. The huge burden of change involved in adults coming into the gospel requires an amazing amount of humility.&lt;/em&gt;

Oh, yes. I finally understood the meaning of the word &quot;meek&quot; when I watched an adult&#039;s baptism, knowing some of what he had overcome.

I wonder how many of us would be willing to be baptized as adults. Bloggers frequently take a stand that this or that gospel requirement ought to be modified to suit their convenience or conscience. Add to that the unflattering look of ruined hairstyles and wet jumpsuits plastered to shivering bodies, and being gawped at by observers standing above you, and there&#039;s a real recipe for self-consciousness. It takes more than one kind of humility for an adult to be baptized.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>As I have watched a number of convert baptisms over the last decade or so, I’ve been impressed by those adults who really get it, who have truly become converted. The huge burden of change involved in adults coming into the gospel requires an amazing amount of humility.</em></p>
<p>Oh, yes. I finally understood the meaning of the word &#8220;meek&#8221; when I watched an adult&#8217;s baptism, knowing some of what he had overcome.</p>
<p>I wonder how many of us would be willing to be baptized as adults. Bloggers frequently take a stand that this or that gospel requirement ought to be modified to suit their convenience or conscience. Add to that the unflattering look of ruined hairstyles and wet jumpsuits plastered to shivering bodies, and being gawped at by observers standing above you, and there&#8217;s a real recipe for self-consciousness. It takes more than one kind of humility for an adult to be baptized.</p>
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		<title>By: BrianJ</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/08/01/baptism-as-an-act-of-humility/#comment-113395</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BrianJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4032#comment-113395</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Baptism is an act of humility, because it doesn’t clean you.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

We&#039;re teaching our oldest about baptism in preparation for her own. The single biggest point I want her to understand is what you say above. Water does not cleanse; the Spirit cleanses. Baptism is a sign that we want the Spirit to cleanse us. It&#039;s the whole difference between the baptism by water and the baptism by fire.

Unless one thinks of baptism in that way (i.e., as two &quot;baptisms&quot;) then the sacrament prayers make no sense as a renewal of baptism. But when we realize that the presence of the Spirit cleanses us from sin, then the sacrament---&quot;to have his Spirit to be with them&quot;---makes sense.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Baptism is an act of humility, because it doesn’t clean you.</p></blockquote>
<p>We&#8217;re teaching our oldest about baptism in preparation for her own. The single biggest point I want her to understand is what you say above. Water does not cleanse; the Spirit cleanses. Baptism is a sign that we want the Spirit to cleanse us. It&#8217;s the whole difference between the baptism by water and the baptism by fire.</p>
<p>Unless one thinks of baptism in that way (i.e., as two &#8220;baptisms&#8221;) then the sacrament prayers make no sense as a renewal of baptism. But when we realize that the presence of the Spirit cleanses us from sin, then the sacrament&#8212;&#8221;to have his Spirit to be with them&#8221;&#8212;makes sense.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/08/01/baptism-as-an-act-of-humility/#comment-113394</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4032#comment-113394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#5 - He did, on multiple occasions throughout His ministry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#5 &#8211; He did, on multiple occasions throughout His ministry.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Stapley</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/08/01/baptism-as-an-act-of-humility/#comment-113393</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J. Stapley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4032#comment-113393</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Walt, ponder this: Did Christ forgive Joseph Smith&#039;s sins at the First Vision?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walt, ponder this: Did Christ forgive Joseph Smith&#8217;s sins at the First Vision?</p>
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		<title>By: cahkaylahlee</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/08/01/baptism-as-an-act-of-humility/#comment-113392</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cahkaylahlee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4032#comment-113392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I really liked this part:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Humility is in accepting that we don’t have the answers, that the answers may not be forthcoming, that it may not all wind up making sense, but in trusting God anyway.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There&#039;s something to &quot;becoming like a little child&quot;.

I have an uncanny memory for things that happened when I was little (I think my memory has been filled up now, I can barely remember what happened yesterday.).  So if you’ll indulge me in sharing my memories from when I was (almost) eight…

I remember learning in Primary about how the water represents being clean and how being “buried in the water” is like burying our sins and not doing them any more.  But I certainly didn’t understand much more.  I knew that I didn’t know the church was true, but I felt good when I said my prayers and read my scriptures and certainly hoped that it was true.  I thought about how disappointed my parents would be if I told them I wanted to wait until I was older to get baptized.  I thought about how my parents lived the gospel.  I thought about the possibility that my Primary teacher was lying to me and decided it might be the case.  I thought about the possibility that my parents were lying to me, and could not accept that possibility (despite being 99% sure the tooth fairy and Santa weren’t real).  I decided to get baptized because I trusted my parents and I loved the Book of Mormon.  I decided to get baptized because I wanted to know that the Gospel is true.

Recently I’ve been thinking a lot about baptism for some reason.  I’ve come to realize how much symbolism is packed into such a simple ordinance – I feel like I am just now beginning to understand it!  Have I found answers to questions I asked years ago, yes.  And I absolutely love how the teachings and ordinances of the Gospel grow with your understanding and preparation.  If I had been told of all the symbols surrounding baptism when I was eight, I would not have understood the beauty of it all.

As to why we are baptized:  Aren&#039;t ordinances for our instruction as well as our salvation?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really liked this part:</p>
<blockquote><p>Humility is in accepting that we don’t have the answers, that the answers may not be forthcoming, that it may not all wind up making sense, but in trusting God anyway.</p></blockquote>
<p>There&#8217;s something to &#8220;becoming like a little child&#8221;.</p>
<p>I have an uncanny memory for things that happened when I was little (I think my memory has been filled up now, I can barely remember what happened yesterday.).  So if you’ll indulge me in sharing my memories from when I was (almost) eight…</p>
<p>I remember learning in Primary about how the water represents being clean and how being “buried in the water” is like burying our sins and not doing them any more.  But I certainly didn’t understand much more.  I knew that I didn’t know the church was true, but I felt good when I said my prayers and read my scriptures and certainly hoped that it was true.  I thought about how disappointed my parents would be if I told them I wanted to wait until I was older to get baptized.  I thought about how my parents lived the gospel.  I thought about the possibility that my Primary teacher was lying to me and decided it might be the case.  I thought about the possibility that my parents were lying to me, and could not accept that possibility (despite being 99% sure the tooth fairy and Santa weren’t real).  I decided to get baptized because I trusted my parents and I loved the Book of Mormon.  I decided to get baptized because I wanted to know that the Gospel is true.</p>
<p>Recently I’ve been thinking a lot about baptism for some reason.  I’ve come to realize how much symbolism is packed into such a simple ordinance – I feel like I am just now beginning to understand it!  Have I found answers to questions I asked years ago, yes.  And I absolutely love how the teachings and ordinances of the Gospel grow with your understanding and preparation.  If I had been told of all the symbols surrounding baptism when I was eight, I would not have understood the beauty of it all.</p>
<p>As to why we are baptized:  Aren&#8217;t ordinances for our instruction as well as our salvation?</p>
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		<title>By: kevinf</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/08/01/baptism-as-an-act-of-humility/#comment-113391</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kevinf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4032#comment-113391</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As I have watched a number of convert baptisms over the last decade or so, I&#039;ve been impressed by those adults who really get it, who have truly become converted. The huge burden of change involved in adults coming into the gospel requires an amazing amount of humility.  And the older you get, the harder it is.  I remember specifically some friends, a professional couple in their 40&#039;s, no children, and the change and transformation they went through.  He was ready a year before she was, so he waited, as he saw that the gospel was for both of them, and he wanted to take all those steps together with her.

They&#039;ve been in the church about 8 years, and have two adopted children now.  They&#039;ve both served in leadership positions,. But both of them humbled themselves to really effect major change in their lives.  It has truly been a transforming experience for them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I have watched a number of convert baptisms over the last decade or so, I&#8217;ve been impressed by those adults who really get it, who have truly become converted. The huge burden of change involved in adults coming into the gospel requires an amazing amount of humility.  And the older you get, the harder it is.  I remember specifically some friends, a professional couple in their 40&#8242;s, no children, and the change and transformation they went through.  He was ready a year before she was, so he waited, as he saw that the gospel was for both of them, and he wanted to take all those steps together with her.</p>
<p>They&#8217;ve been in the church about 8 years, and have two adopted children now.  They&#8217;ve both served in leadership positions,. But both of them humbled themselves to really effect major change in their lives.  It has truly been a transforming experience for them.</p>
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