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Saturday Morning General Conference Open Thread
October 4, 2008 — John C.233 Responses to “Saturday Morning General Conference Open Thread”
LDS Headlines- The Mormon queen of the damned - New Zealand Herald
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Meta
October 4, 2008 at 10:03 am
My four year old, as soon as Pres. Monson steps to the podium: “I’ve seen this one before. He does something tricky with his ears.”
October 4, 2008 at 10:05 am
I’m hoping that Elder Bowen will bless the donuts we’ll be eating as soon as he says AMEN.
October 4, 2008 at 10:09 am
Blessing the food is just wrong: http://www.mormonmentality.org/2007/03/05/on-blessing-the-food-or-not-rather.htm
October 4, 2008 at 10:11 am
I think Redeemer of Israel is our current go-to restoration hymn. It seems to be very popular these days. Interesting.
October 4, 2008 at 10:14 am
THE GREATER KANSAS CITY AREA! That’s Independence!
October 4, 2008 at 10:14 am
jeans (4): I’ve observed the same thing. I think it began with Elder Bednar’s “Tender Mercies” talk when he said Redeemer of Israel is his favorite.
October 4, 2008 at 10:15 am
5 new temples. There goes another $35 Million in tithing.
October 4, 2008 at 10:16 am
Not cool, Eddie.
Rome, Italy temple. Cool!
October 4, 2008 at 10:16 am
Rome! Cool!
Also, Philly is cool too!
October 4, 2008 at 10:18 am
Cheering from the Philadelphia area! SUPER COOL!!!!
October 4, 2008 at 10:19 am
Rome?!
Benedict is gonna be PO’d…
October 4, 2008 at 10:19 am
for the record or for those with a slightly later feed, the 5 are:
Calgary Alberta
Cordova Argentina
Greater Kansas City
Philadelphia PA
Rome Italy (huge gasp & then chuckle from the crowd.)
October 4, 2008 at 10:20 am
Forza Roma!
And, during the hymn I think I saw Dwight Schrute singing in the choir.
October 4, 2008 at 10:20 am
It’s worth it Eddy.
Very few people in this world give a darn about the dead besides the LDS Church.
There are plenty of other people spending money on the poor. Let them do their job, and let us do our job.
October 4, 2008 at 10:21 am
Actually, it is Cordoba Argentina. Cordova is a small village in Alaska.
October 4, 2008 at 10:22 am
My $35 million wasn’t meant in a negative way. SOrry if it came across as such. I agree that it is money well spent.
October 4, 2008 at 10:22 am
Cool, Eddie. *grin*
October 4, 2008 at 10:22 am
No problem Eddie. That’s blogging for you.
October 4, 2008 at 10:23 am
Definitely not cool, Eddie.
I’m with EmWJ, temple in the Greater Kansas City Area (awesome equivocal geography). My guess is that it will go into the Kansas City, Kansas side of the river so as not to excite Millennialist fervor.
October 4, 2008 at 10:24 am
Anyone know any other live blogs for conference? THis is only my second time participating. It seems that last time I had 2 going — the other one being on timesanseasons.org, but they don’t seem to have one this morning.
October 4, 2008 at 10:24 am
Zion is getting a temple!
October 4, 2008 at 10:25 am
greater kansas city sounds like code to me for independence! if they already own the property, why not call it by the city with a real name like the others? second coming here we come…
and the 4 basics we need–food, shelter, etc–get your food storage and simplify your life! interesting.
October 4, 2008 at 10:26 am
#19 it does make me wonder a lot as well.
I find it interesting that there is now a third temple in Alberta. That will really make my temple (Edmonton) a local one.
October 4, 2008 at 10:26 am
Ben: They announced a temple in Northern Virginia? Sweet!
October 4, 2008 at 10:26 am
Not cool, Eddie.
October 4, 2008 at 10:26 am
“There are plenty of other people spending money on the poor. Let them do their job, and let us do our job.”
I don’t see why we can’t do both? I’m sure Eddy’s and our little luxuries could be used to help out the poor. I don’t think it’s a matter of choosing between temples and the poor. It’s a matter of between movie tickets, Ipods, fast food, books, new electronics, a nice restaurant, new clothes, a car, gas, concerts, sporting events, . . . and the poor.
October 4, 2008 at 10:26 am
Thoreau! Elder Perry is playing with my emotions.
October 4, 2008 at 10:27 am
20: Mormon Mentality is having an open thread too.
October 4, 2008 at 10:27 am
I can tell already that the mortgage/banking crisis is making an impact in the talks.
October 4, 2008 at 10:28 am
Eddie, I for one am just having fun. I’ll stop now.
October 4, 2008 at 10:29 am
Is modest dress, re: the quote by Pres. Tanner, also about modest cost?
October 4, 2008 at 10:30 am
There’s one at Our Thoughts, Eddie.
October 4, 2008 at 10:31 am
Modest dress talk on a Saturday when most of us are sitting in casual clothes watching this on TV or the net?
October 4, 2008 at 10:31 am
A passing reference to sustainable energy in conference. Cool.
October 4, 2008 at 10:31 am
“traysures of knowledge.” Grin.
October 4, 2008 at 10:32 am
We don’t typically release fast offering donation figures. One exception I know of was a special fast for Ethiopian famine relief in the late ’80s. The fast offerings collected in one day exceeded the building cost of the Washington DC temple. When I served as a missionary in DC, I was fond of pointing that out to people who complained about building temples and not feeding the poor.
I’ve since found out that fast offerings increase, often dramatically, in an area when a temple goes up. The temples help us focus our attention on the poor and needy, rather than directing our attention away from them.
Generous people, like the LDS, can build temples AND help the poor.
I also noticed that most of the people who leveled the “help the poor instead” charge were driving rather pricy cars and wearing the latest designer duds. In other words, their attitude was “YOU should help the poor more so I don’t have to.”
October 4, 2008 at 10:34 am
“I also noticed that most of the people who leveled the “help the poor instead” charge were driving rather pricy cars and wearing the latest designer duds.”
That we can help and build temples is a good point. The above comment however show that you are full of it.
October 4, 2008 at 10:35 am
Wow, I don’t think I’ve ever seen the podium drop as low as it did from Elder Perry to Sister Allred, LOL.
October 4, 2008 at 10:35 am
does the Kansas City area mean Jackson County? Is it time for me to load up my handcart and head back to Zion? Someone help me out here.
October 4, 2008 at 10:35 am
boys, be nice.
October 4, 2008 at 10:36 am
Sorry Dad
October 4, 2008 at 10:37 am
How so, Chris?
October 4, 2008 at 10:37 am
Jon W,
I bet the Calgary temple makes my temple more local than it does yours.
October 4, 2008 at 10:38 am
Yes, Kurt. That’s what it means. I’ve started looking online for a handcart to purchase. Surely someone online sells them, right?
October 4, 2008 at 10:39 am
Oh OK, Seth R., so we should just ignore the poor and needy and concentrate on building ostentatious temples? Interesting…I wonder if the Savior shares your opinion? Something tells me the answer is “no”.
October 4, 2008 at 10:39 am
My Bishops’ wife passed away last week. I hope you got some strength from Elder Perry’s talk.
Does Sister Allred currently live in Utah? I wonder how she got involved in general RS?
October 4, 2008 at 10:40 am
I am sick of the argument that all social justice advocates, or other who claim to defend the poor are really middle-class hypocrates. I think we can do both. I am not sure if I can belong to a community that largely agrees with your last comment.
I will behave now.
October 4, 2008 at 10:40 am
Sister Alred is my best friends aunt. She’s a wonderful lady.
October 4, 2008 at 10:40 am
I love how Sister Allred isn’t using a Primary voice. She is speaking just as forcefully as anyone. That’s cool.
October 4, 2008 at 10:41 am
Are we ignoring the poor all the sudden? I missed that…
October 4, 2008 at 10:41 am
People, no-one is saying don’t build temples and no-one is saying don’t serve the poor. Arguments assuming one or the other of these statements will be initially mocked and then summarily deleted. Proceed.
October 4, 2008 at 10:41 am
BTW, I live in Rexburg and I was touched by how the temple was beautiful but not overly fancy.
October 4, 2008 at 10:41 am
Soldotna, ALaska to Independence….that’s 3,682 miles in a covered wagon. I wonder if I can find any oxen around here.
October 4, 2008 at 10:42 am
I think Seth meant that we can do both, and that building temples does not mean we can’t feed the poor.
I had a conversation along these lines recently on a business trip to Argentina. A coworker wanted to know why we spent so much money on a temple (we drove past the temple on the way in from the airport) when there was so much poverty nearby.
I simply explained that we believe the temple is a House of God, and that it is among the holiest of places on the earth, and therefore we put the best materials and workmanship into them as a symbol of our reverence for what takes place in the temple.
That said, I also explained we feed and clothe those in need throughout the world, many of whom do not belong to our church.
October 4, 2008 at 10:42 am
My wife served in Italy. Her tears were the best part of conference so far.
October 4, 2008 at 10:42 am
Bingo.
October 4, 2008 at 10:43 am
Is it significant that we are builing in Independance and Rome at the same time?
October 4, 2008 at 10:44 am
So, do you think it is a bigger deal to have a temple in Jackson County or in the shadow of the Vatican?
October 4, 2008 at 10:44 am
Rome – that’s just wonderful. I can’t even find the words.
As for Philadelphia, anyone know where specifically? If it includes my stake (Wilmington Delaware) that will certainly help its core – Washington is 2 1/2 hours away and round-trip tolls are now at least $13. Unfortunately it looks like the trip would increase (though not by a whole lot) for our farthest-south meetinghouse (near Salisbury, Maryland.)
October 4, 2008 at 10:44 am
Matt: In which mission did she serve? When?
October 4, 2008 at 10:44 am
The Church does spend a lot of money on the poor Tony. We have a threefold Church mission. My point was that money spent on binding the hearts of the children to the fathers is no waste.
Either way, I don’t second-guess the figures.
That said, I’m sorry I wrote the comment and provided a distraction that has honestly gone on more than long enough.
October 4, 2008 at 10:45 am
I wonder if the Pope will get a private tour by President Monson.
October 4, 2008 at 10:45 am
Tracy, I do not think there is any further significance, though we should start spreading those rumors right away.
October 4, 2008 at 10:48 am
“I do know God loves me.”
Amen.
October 4, 2008 at 10:48 am
Bonjo: Italy Padova Mission. 2000-2001
October 4, 2008 at 10:49 am
The grounds for the Roma temple were selected and purchased a number of years ago. One of my mission companions, who lives in Rome, participated in a meeting where the members gathered at the site and were informed of the purpose of its purchase. That said, there was no firm commitment or construction date. It’s in a very pretty location.
October 4, 2008 at 10:50 am
Matt: Cool, I was in Catania in the mid 90’s.
October 4, 2008 at 10:51 am
I was in Padova 1992 to 1994.
October 4, 2008 at 10:51 am
“faith is a decision.” I’ve always believed that.
October 4, 2008 at 10:52 am
It will be interesting to see if any architectural differences will be visible in the Italy Temple
October 4, 2008 at 10:52 am
Seth, I apologize for the diversion as well. And by no means do I think money spent on temples is wasted. I think helping the living should be our first priority, though, as HF will ultimately take care of the dead (with our assistance, of course).
Peace.
October 4, 2008 at 10:53 am
“You know enough.” I really like that.
October 4, 2008 at 10:55 am
Now that they put the words on the screen all the time, does anyone feel like they’re singing Karaoke??
October 4, 2008 at 10:55 am
Elder Anderson has come to visit my area two times in the last year.
He’s a very kind man. Very sincere.
October 4, 2008 at 10:56 am
I must be on time delay or something…
October 4, 2008 at 10:57 am
Faith is more than feeling, it is also a decision. That is easy to forget sometimes.
October 4, 2008 at 10:57 am
Based on the timing of that song, I’m going to predict that we finish 3 minutes early this session.
October 4, 2008 at 10:58 am
Time delay Matt?? Why you say that?
October 4, 2008 at 11:01 am
Do you think that making my own DVD Set of the conference talks is a violation of the copyright announcement at the beginning of the conference?
October 4, 2008 at 11:01 am
He’s faking that accent. It’s the cool thing in conference these days…
October 4, 2008 at 11:04 am
A copy for personal use isn’t a problem. If Bill Mahr used extensive excerpts from conference in an effort to ridicule us, then they’d have some recourse.
October 4, 2008 at 11:04 am
A Lithuanian-Scottish-Brazilian! That’s awesome.
October 4, 2008 at 11:04 am
I think that Elder F. Enzio Busche had the coolest accent of any general authority. And no, the fact that he gave me a cool, carved neckerchief thingy at a scout encampment in Idaho in the 1980s didn’t cause me to have a bias.
October 4, 2008 at 11:06 am
Anyone else feel like they’re listening to a talk by the Count?
October 4, 2008 at 11:06 am
I liked his straight-forward and sunny, “Good morning, brothers and sisters!”
October 4, 2008 at 11:07 am
Having the real intent to act on the answer received through praying about The Book of Mormon. That’s the part people forget sometimes.
October 4, 2008 at 11:09 am
Is Elder Oaks speaking to the families or the leaders here?
October 4, 2008 at 11:10 am
“Sacrament meetings should focus on the atonement and sacrifice of Jesus Christ.”
Amen.
October 4, 2008 at 11:10 am
Both.
October 4, 2008 at 11:12 am
#84, so true! My husband and I are laughing about your comment.
October 4, 2008 at 11:15 am
Elder Oaks clearly reads the blogs.
October 4, 2008 at 11:15 am
How is a non-saving ordinance like the sacrament like the temple?
October 4, 2008 at 11:15 am
“Sacrament meeting is not a time … for texting persons at other locations.”
What about commentary texted to someone two rows behind you?
October 4, 2008 at 11:15 am
I like how he addressed dress without going into specific detail about white shirts etc.
October 4, 2008 at 11:15 am
Elder Oaks, aka “The Hammer” – I love this talk.
October 4, 2008 at 11:16 am
Bonjo,
He did not say it so it mush be allowed.
October 4, 2008 at 11:16 am
#92 I’d say it’s a saving ordinance, since it’s a renewal of baptismal covenants.
October 4, 2008 at 11:16 am
Wow, second mention of dress in first session…
October 4, 2008 at 11:17 am
RE: #79
No, Eddie it isn’t, unless you start manufacturing and selling them. Then you have violated the copyright.
By the way, fresh frozen Alaska brother, you might not necessarily have to go back to Missouri. All of North and South America is ‘greater’ Zion, so you might be called to stay in Soldoltna and continue to build up Zion right there. So don’t go wagon & oxen shopping just yet!
October 4, 2008 at 11:17 am
#92 – Um, that’s what he’s teaching in the talk.
October 4, 2008 at 11:18 am
What? No books in Sacrament meeting?
How am I supposed to finish Rough Stone Rolling?
And didn’t Elder Oaks’ wife get after him once for reading books in Sacrament Meeting?
Looks like he took his wife’s counsel to heart.
October 4, 2008 at 11:19 am
“Slowly and distinctly” – SWEET!!
October 4, 2008 at 11:19 am
@97: that interpretation would seem to indicate baptism isn’t completed at the time of baptism…or?
October 4, 2008 at 11:20 am
@100: thanks for the hat tip, Ray.
October 4, 2008 at 11:20 am
I wish my kids would let me read during sacrement meeting.
October 4, 2008 at 11:21 am
Thanks for that clarification Vilikiye. Somehow, I just don’t think that the fishing is as good down there as it is here.
October 4, 2008 at 11:21 am
“How is a non-saving ordinance like the sacrament like the temple?”
The first two words of the sacrament prayer repeat significant words from the temple. I think of that when I hear either.
October 4, 2008 at 11:21 am
No books in Sacrament meeting?! Then when am I supposed to prepare my gospel doctrine lesson?
October 4, 2008 at 11:21 am
I take back the earlier white shirt comment.
October 4, 2008 at 11:21 am
There’s the white shirt.
October 4, 2008 at 11:22 am
“Nothing that draws attention to one’s self and distracts” – My oldest daughter just turned to my second son and said he would have to lose his red hair.
October 4, 2008 at 11:22 am
#94 You spoke too soon, buddy.
October 4, 2008 at 11:22 am
Wearing white shirts also prepare us for the board room. Very important.
October 4, 2008 at 11:23 am
Duke, I should have known better.
October 4, 2008 at 11:23 am
I liked how he framed the white shirt principle. I’ve never heard it presented that way, and it is a good way to do it.
October 4, 2008 at 11:23 am
Thanks for the insight, Clair.
October 4, 2008 at 11:24 am
#43 yes Cardston will definitely become more local than ever.
October 4, 2008 at 11:24 am
I suppose it might be considered inappropriate to offer the following comment on Elder Oaks talk but he needs to lighten up. Talk about pushing kids out of the church. Enough with the white shirts already.
October 4, 2008 at 11:24 am
Take note that the white shirt comment was directed at those who officiate during the ordinance.
October 4, 2008 at 11:26 am
Did anyone else catch that the white shirt is supposed to be symbolic?
Does anyone criticize our military ceremonies for requiring those soldiers to wear all those insignia and symbols?
No.
So why are we so overwrought about trying to maintain a degree of symbolism to our most sacred of ordinances?
October 4, 2008 at 11:27 am
#115 that was my thought as well Ray.
October 4, 2008 at 11:27 am
also note the wherever possible caveat
October 4, 2008 at 11:27 am
why didn’t he address the cheerios situation? our chapel is such a mess after sac mtg with all the food people bring!
October 4, 2008 at 11:27 am
Never heard “Sacrament is replacement for Animal Sacrifice” before. Very cool.
October 4, 2008 at 11:28 am
Sanford, instill a deep sense of worship for the sacrament as a sacred ordinance tied to baptism and what’s the big deal negatively about a white shirt? Should we “lighten up” and perform baptisms in any shirt we want to wear?
October 4, 2008 at 11:29 am
Uchtdorf should just repeat his RS broadcast talk. Don’t know how he can ever top that one.
October 4, 2008 at 11:30 am
While the choir is singing, does anyone know of other open threads like this one I could follow?
October 4, 2008 at 11:30 am
Some kids don’t want to look and dress like everyone else. So what do they do? They stop attending Church. Is the uniform worth the cost?
October 4, 2008 at 11:30 am
Are they running ahead of schedule? Two songs in a row…
October 4, 2008 at 11:30 am
I’m just happy that there isn’t a tie requirement. (Living the letter-of-the-law, ya know)
October 4, 2008 at 11:31 am
That is the key to the message… trying instill a deeper sense of reverence for sacred ordinances.
October 4, 2008 at 11:31 am
Seth R.
Because there is not scriptural or doctrinal basis for it. He was making a connection on an ad hoc basis. “How can we justify it now that it has become the cultural norm?”
Can we be anymore bourgeiosie? (pretty sure I spelled that wrong)
October 4, 2008 at 11:31 am
I also like how he framed the sacrament as an intermediate ordinance between baptism and the temple.
This is one I’m going to have to read slowly.
October 4, 2008 at 11:31 am
Obviously there’s nothing wrong with wearing white shirts. As a friend of mine once expressed, there could be half a dozen talks about humility or repentance in conference but if one leader mentions tatoos or white shirts invariably that’s what sticks in members’ minds because its more specific. Fine, maybe they think the priests should wear white shirts when the bless the sacrament, but is GC the best forum to dress that? Priests in the wards I’ve been in always wear white shirts, I’ve never noticed that this is something Aaronic priesthood doesn’t comply with in the US at least. What message does it send that the leaders think this is important enough to address in GC?
October 4, 2008 at 11:31 am
You know I have no problem with white shirts been suggested/required for doing ordinances. My problem stems from the idea that this means males only look right with white shirts at church. That I find a bit much.
October 4, 2008 at 11:32 am
Anita,
don’t go after the cheerios, I will have nothing left.
October 4, 2008 at 11:32 am
Yes but Elder Oaks only said that Aaronic Priesthood holders had to wear white shirts. He used to be a lawyer; he should know to be more careful with his words.
October 4, 2008 at 11:32 am
BIG difference there Seth…
October 4, 2008 at 11:32 am
I recall when Elder Holland gave his original white shirt/sacrament talk. For a long time, our ward would not permit anyone to officiate in the Sacrament who was not wearing a white shirt. FWIW, the current handbook encourages white shirts, but explicitly states that wearing a white shirt should not be imposed as an mandatory requirement to administer the Sacrament. Thus, in the last year or so, we have had some newly converted brethren administer the Sacrament even when they have forgotten to wear a white shirt that day, and the same with youth.
I wonder if our ward and others will now return to the prior practice of imposes it as an almost absolute requirement.
October 4, 2008 at 11:33 am
No one says you can’t change shirts after performing the sacrament.
October 4, 2008 at 11:34 am
So, no cartoon ties for deacons?
My daughter (8) just said: Do you realize there is only one black person in the whole women’s choir?
October 4, 2008 at 11:35 am
Sanford and Chris, We are facing a situation where many in the “rising generation” (and others, as bluntly as I can put this) are losing a sense of the sacredness of the sacrament. To address that, a prophet of God delivered a talk emphasizing the need to everything possible to maintain that sacredness in out hearts and minds. Somehow, I think deepening one’s appreciation for the ordinance is more important than worrying about allowing young men to dress however they want to dress while administering a gospel ordinance.
October 4, 2008 at 11:35 am
That’s better than what my late grandfather would say if he made the same observation.
October 4, 2008 at 11:35 am
Two choir songs in a row? Is this normal?
October 4, 2008 at 11:36 am
Interesting view of the other side of the war.
October 4, 2008 at 11:36 am
Ray, I’m surprised by comments like that. I’m wondering what you’ve noticed that shows that “situation.”
October 4, 2008 at 11:36 am
I love Elder Uchtdorf. Just saying.
October 4, 2008 at 11:36 am
BREAKING! Uchtdorf endorses Obama!!!
October 4, 2008 at 11:36 am
#140: So long as you don’t text your buddies while you do it.
October 4, 2008 at 11:38 am
“The Infinite Power of Hope”
October 4, 2008 at 11:38 am
Cynthia, LOL.
October 4, 2008 at 11:38 am
Steve, perhaps the immediate response of those who quickly complain.
I am listening to a wonderful talk right now. I’ve said what I have to say about the last one.
October 4, 2008 at 11:38 am
If you can’t follow counsel as simple as wearing a white shirt, how are you going to be able to follow the actual commandments?
October 4, 2008 at 11:39 am
moronee? oh dear. sorry picking on his accent but that is a non-member pronunciation to my ears.
October 4, 2008 at 11:39 am
All my young men wear white shirts in my ward. We have a billion other problems, this isn’t one of them. Young Men aren’t stupid. They understand the importance of presentation.
October 4, 2008 at 11:40 am
Maybe we should focus on actual commaandments.
October 4, 2008 at 11:40 am
ok the phone quote made me laugh.
October 4, 2008 at 11:41 am
I don’t think anybody said anything about not wearing a white shirt or not focusing on the ordinance or its sacredness at sacrament meeting but I’m sure whoever that person is meets with our severest condemnation.
October 4, 2008 at 11:42 am
Yup Tony, there is a difference.
The Sacrament is of far more importance, and far more worthy of respect than ANYTHING the men in uniform ceremonially do.
We honor the false religions far more than the genuine article it seems.
October 4, 2008 at 11:42 am
Don’t twist what I said, Steve. There was no condemnation in any comment I’ve made. The end.
October 4, 2008 at 11:43 am
This is an incredible talk!
October 4, 2008 at 11:44 am
Uchtdorf rocks. I love Europeans.
October 4, 2008 at 11:44 am
sorry, I didn’t mean there was. sorry
October 4, 2008 at 11:44 am
If we have the hope that he is speaking of do we have reason to fear death? Either our own or that of our loved ones?
October 4, 2008 at 11:44 am
Jon W:
‘Moronee’ is how many members in the world say it, depending on what language is your native language. I’ve always enjoyed Elder Uchtdorf’s subtle references to his native language. I think many members around the world who are listening right now will appreciate this too.
October 4, 2008 at 11:44 am
and he has Ray and I agreeing
October 4, 2008 at 11:45 am
Boy, does my wife think President Uchtdorf is handsome.
October 4, 2008 at 11:45 am
I remember in the ward where I grew up, the Priests would often be smoking in the parking lot during Sunday School, but as long as they had white shirts on, they were good to go on performing the Sacrament ordinance.
For all the focus on white shirts, I’m thrilled that something was said about worthiness. I’ll take a nice kid in a black shirt over a white-frocked fornicator any day.
October 4, 2008 at 11:46 am
#154: No, it’s a foreign language pronunciation of a foreign name. It’s likely that more members of the church pronounce Moroni’s name with a long “E” at the end than the US long “I.”
October 4, 2008 at 11:46 am
Elder Uchtdorf, aka “The Miracle Worker”
October 4, 2008 at 11:46 am
#154
No, it’s a foreign pronunciation in many languages.
October 4, 2008 at 11:47 am
#165 yeah I would agree with you, it was just something that caught my ear funny.
October 4, 2008 at 11:47 am
Do you think his tan is real?
October 4, 2008 at 11:48 am
Yes
October 4, 2008 at 11:48 am
“The things we hope FOR lead us to faith; the things we hope IN lead us to charity.”
WOW!
October 4, 2008 at 11:50 am
“not only in this life, but in this one as well”
This is another one I will have to read slowly.
October 4, 2008 at 11:50 am
Wow…..I predicted a 3 minute early finish. Looks like I might be off a little.
October 4, 2008 at 11:51 am
Very very good talk, President Uchtdorf has definitely hit his stride.
October 4, 2008 at 11:51 am
The obama vibe is undeniable. I wonder if E. Uchtdorf was in the crowd of cheering Germans at the Brandenburg gate when Obama went through town. (or wait, maybe obama’s read the bible)
October 4, 2008 at 11:52 am
If the Uchtdorfs can make it through the post-war period, I can make it through the recession.
October 4, 2008 at 11:52 am
Anyone notice that the first and last speakers both talked about overcoming despair and trials?
October 4, 2008 at 11:53 am
Great point, Kurt.
October 4, 2008 at 11:55 am
Hope and faith aren’t bad topics to ponder as I sit here listening to Conference and working at one of the largest mortgage banks in the US. There’s precious little of either here, and Pepto-Bismol has become a major source of nutrition.
October 4, 2008 at 11:56 am
So Michael, how much of that $700 billion is your ocmpany getting? I think I may start biking to work so I can get that $240 per year tax credit that was part of the additional $150 billion in pork that got the bill to pass.
October 4, 2008 at 11:57 am
So by your logic then a person wearing a clean, pressed blue oxford shirt is disrespecting the sacrament? Interesting.
Like another poster said, we have many other problems. Shirt color shouldn’t be one of them.
October 4, 2008 at 11:58 am
See you all in 2 hours.
October 4, 2008 at 11:59 am
Someone asked about another open thread. Here is a twitter one:
http://search.twitter.com/search?q=ldsconf
October 4, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Do you think the rain is keeping the number of protestors down?
October 4, 2008 at 12:01 pm
You’re right, Tony, it shouldn’t be. Please consider this:
It’s not a “problem” in and of itself. You are making it a “problem”.
October 4, 2008 at 12:03 pm
That was a perfect closing prayer.
October 4, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Jami, I choked up during that prayer.
October 4, 2008 at 12:05 pm
i’m right there with ya!
i’m still in awe over the closing hymn. during the nasty custody battle, i would sit in my care during court breaks and listen to that hymn to get through.
today, years later, it still has the same effect of making me weep like a child.
October 4, 2008 at 12:07 pm
What??? How am I making it a problem? Oh I get it, If one challenges other members notion’s that have no basis in Scripture I’m causing a problem. I’ll have to remember that so I can march in lockstep with you and the other uber-orthodox in the future.
You know, as a three-year convert I’m increasingly doubting my decision…The Gospel is still true but I wonder if the church is for me when I have conversations like this.
October 4, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Tony, a very specific question:
How is it a problem to help members view the sacrament as a sacred intermediate ordinance between baptism and the temple by asking those who administer it, where possible, to wear white – just as is worn to perform baptism and temple ordinances? How – exactly – is that a problem?
October 4, 2008 at 12:10 pm
tony, ray
don’t kill my buzz!
October 4, 2008 at 12:11 pm
“You know, as a three-year convert I’m increasingly doubting my decision…The Gospel is still true but I wonder if the church is for me when I have conversations like this.”
Comments like that strike me as manipulative.
October 4, 2008 at 12:12 pm
mfranti, that hymn has gotten me through a lot of rough spots as well. And the choir’s performance was lovely. We had a rare moment of quiet in the house as they were singing so we could really hear it. Peace. Peace. Peace.
October 4, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Oops. Sorry, mfranti.
October 4, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Oops. Didn’t mean to break into the convo.
October 4, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Oops. I didn’t mean to simultaneously say oops.
October 4, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Tony, in the interest of full disclosure, I have not supported those who insist on white shirts to pass the sacrament before today. I have made the same kind of arguments that others have made.
I have never heard it framed as Elder Oaks framed it, and it really resonated with me when he did so. To be called an uber-orthodox member for changing a stance I’ve held before because I was touched by a prophet’s words and felt they were inspired is a unique experience for me. As of yesterday, I was in the “what’s the big deal” camp; as of today, I’m not. I’ve never been in the “it’s a huge problem” camp, but I certainly moved my tent today.
October 4, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Sorry, everyone, I also will end this now. Elder Oaks’ talk is good enough to stand on its own.
October 4, 2008 at 12:17 pm
jami, thanks for sharing.
i was feeling sincere humility and a connection to my HF that I hadn’t felt in months.
Its seems the politics of organized religion get in the way of what I feel and what I think on a daily basis.
It was so nice to just be in quiet prayer with him through song.
I’m telling ya…best feeling in the world.
October 4, 2008 at 12:24 pm
If anyone out there uses twitter, include #ldsconf in your post so it gets picked up by the twitter search mentioned above. Twitter is catching the #ldsconf trend!
October 4, 2008 at 12:24 pm
#184 – I’m not getting a dime of that money. I’m just a lowly vice president, and I sold all my stock last year when the company announced they were outsourcing most IT, help desk, and customer service functions to India. That kept me out of a 75% drop.
So, it’s not my company anymore. I just work here.
October 4, 2008 at 12:25 pm
A temple in Cordoba! And in Rome! I’m so excited and emotionally moved by these two particular announcements. Cordoba is not far from my family, and I only wish I could take them through as visitors during the Open House before the dedication.
October 4, 2008 at 12:29 pm
I wish Elder Oaks had commented more on the prayers offered during Sacrament meeting, specifically about the sex of those who offer opening prayers. This has been a painful issue in our ward these past few months.
October 4, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Patricia, what has been the issue and how would you have liked Elder Oaks to address it?
October 4, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Romney biopic on BYU tv, anyone watching?
October 4, 2008 at 12:42 pm
It’s on, and I’m listening as I made some lunch for the family…
October 4, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Ray and Tony,
Be Nice!
October 4, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Sanford (208), it’s this issue, and I would like to hear that the sex of the person offering the prayer, either opening or closing, of Sacrament meeting is irrelevant.
October 4, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Patricia, me too.
October 4, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Good link, patricia, but I have to say, I have never, not ever been in a ward where women didn’t give opening prayers. In my home ward, women are regularly giving both the invocation and benediction, and sometimes all the talks in between!
I guess for those places where things are all twisted around, a word from the GC pulpit would be a great clarifier.
October 4, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Elder Oaks spoke on the sacrament at his last MTC talk (September), and has given another talk on it as well in General Conference. It clearly matters to him a lot. After the MTC talk, I vowed to get my son to church (we are always late) in time for the sacrament hymn, not just for the sacrament.
Elder Uchtdorf’s themes: Joy and hope. I always look forward to his talks. He is clearly in a position to talk about those themes; he radiates both.
I do wonder about the phrase “appropriate music” as Elder Oaks expressed it. Has the sense of what’s “appropriate” changed since the early days of the Church, and will it evolve in the next twenty years as we become less Utah/Euro-centric?
October 4, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Yeah, I am with you on this one Patricia. A quick comment from Elder Oaks would put the whole thing to rest one way or the other. I wonder why the issue hasn’t been addressed.
October 4, 2008 at 1:31 pm
No woman has ever given the opener in my ward.
October 4, 2008 at 1:41 pm
I realized conference had started, downloaded the new player on lds.org, started it running live, and returned to work sewing a silk dress.
Just in time to hear about those evil Nephites and their fine clothing.
October 4, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Tony, are you serious? You would leave the Church over asking you to wear a white shirt?
Really?
October 4, 2008 at 1:49 pm
I think if Elder Oaks really wanted to make a difference in Sacrament Meeting reverence, he should have dropped the hammer on holding Sacrament Meeting last in the three-hour block.
Unless it’s absolutely necessary due to building scheduling concerns, Sacrament should never be last in the three-hour block. It kills the reverence in a Ward – completely and utterly.
Another area where one brief word from him would have been enough.
October 4, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Seth, no I wouldn’t leave over just a white shirt (that would never happen, anyway…I always wear a white shirt to church) but I would leave over rampant “Pharisaical-ism” that forces others to wear a white shirt and then deems that person as somehow less righteous because they don’t follow some unwritten edict. The white shirt thing is just the tip of the iceberg.
October 4, 2008 at 1:54 pm
yawn.
October 4, 2008 at 1:55 pm
That’s very interesting that woman aren’t giving opening prayers in your wards. I suppose there could be some deviousness afoot but I would more likely attribute it to a ward executive secretary that may be uncomfortable call Sister So-and-so early Sunday morning to give the prayer.
I haven’t notice the problem in my ward but I’ll keep my eyes open.
October 4, 2008 at 1:56 pm
I’m sorry, Steve, am I keeping you awake?
October 4, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Tony and Ray,
As noted above, the current handbook specifically states that white shirts are desirable for Sacrament administration, but should not be enforced as a rigid mandatory prerequisite to administer the Sacrament. I do not think Elder Holland’s and Elder Oaks’ encouragement of white shirts changes either component of that.
I hope bishops who listened to the talk will take into account both components of the handbook’s policy. If a young man (or in wards with few young men) and adult does not happen to wear a white shirt on a Sunday, I do not think either Elder Oaks or Elder Holland would suggest that they should be automatically disqualified from administering the Sacrament that Sunday.
October 4, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Unfortunately, Brewhaha (223), it’s not that at all, because women have given the opening prayer in our ward. However, in a recent Sacrament meeting, in which two members of our stake presidency were present, a sister who had offered to pray in place of her sick-at-home husband (who had originally been scheduled to pray) was told at the pulpit, essentially, “Thank you, but no thank you. We appreciate your offer, but a priesthood holder must open our Sacrament meetings with prayer. Brother So-and-so, would you please offer us our opening prayer this morning?”
Yes, a word would have helped.
Good point, Seth R.(220), on preferring not to have Sacrament meeting at the end of the 3-hour block.
October 4, 2008 at 2:35 pm
“Seen or unseen they [angels] are always near.”
Wow!
October 4, 2008 at 3:12 pm
PH Holders offering the opening prayer in sacrament meeting is one of those “unwritten” rules.
October 4, 2008 at 3:13 pm
It looks like Gen Conference speakers were chosen this time to show that we don’t all speak English. Or am I crazy?
October 4, 2008 at 3:27 pm
And what’s the deal with a man always being the closing speaker in Sacrament meetings? Why can’t a woman speak last?
October 4, 2008 at 3:41 pm
When Elder Holland was talking about the seven-year-old boy and his cows and the high river, I admit I cried when the dad showed up.
October 4, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Misty,
That’s a bishop or stake president rule. I’ve never been in a ward with rules about one sex only being allowed to give the opening or closing prayer, or who speaks last, but others have, so it’s not a Church rule.
October 4, 2008 at 4:43 pm
I’ve been in several So. Cal wards and women have not been allowed to give the opening prayer. It’s a problem that needs to be addressed.