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	<title>Comments on: All About Name Removal</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/10/19/all-about-name-removal/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/10/19/all-about-name-removal/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Evans</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/10/19/all-about-name-removal/#comment-26116</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Evans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4272#comment-26116</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Queuno, what is your policy on the bowl system?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Queuno, what is your policy on the bowl system?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Researcher</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/10/19/all-about-name-removal/#comment-26115</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Researcher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4272#comment-26115</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I second the motion. I&#039;ll even go collect signatures.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second the motion. I&#8217;ll even go collect signatures.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John Mansfield</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/10/19/all-about-name-removal/#comment-26114</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Mansfield]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4272#comment-26114</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would love to see Ardis working as a spokesperson to the media.  Let&#039;s get queuno elected.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would love to see Ardis working as a spokesperson to the media.  Let&#8217;s get queuno elected.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: queuno</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/10/19/all-about-name-removal/#comment-26113</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[queuno]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 05:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4272#comment-26113</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I ever get elected to public office, I want Ardis to be my spokesperson to the media.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I ever get elected to public office, I want Ardis to be my spokesperson to the media.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ardis Parshall</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/10/19/all-about-name-removal/#comment-26112</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ardis Parshall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 20:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4272#comment-26112</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Velikye, it&#039;s becoming harder and harder to read comments like #120 with a straight face, what with Elder Jensen all but going out on the street and dragging people into the archives and begging them to use the vast collections for whatever point of view they want to promote.

This deserves better exposure than comment 138 of a dead thread, so I&#039;ll probably repeat this as a post at Keepapitchinin:  A few weeks ago, Simon &amp; Schuster released David Roberts&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Devil&#039;s Gate: The Great Mormon Handcart Tragedy&lt;/em&gt;. This is a book very much in the interpretive strain of Will Bagley and David L. Bigler, and most BCC readers will probably protest some of the author&#039;s conclusions and the sarcastic zingers that pepper the text. Yet even this author could write in his acknowledgements:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I had anticipated a diffident or even suspicious reception when I started work in the LDS Archives in 2005. To my great surprise, the archivists, librarians, and historians in the Church History Library could not have been more welcoming and helpful. In 1964, Wallace Stegner had complained that the LDS library and archives were &quot;open to scholars only reluctantly and with limitations.&quot; Nothing could be further from the truth today. To my mind, the Archives now set a shining example of disinterested service to writers and researchers who will inevitably quarrel with and criticize &quot;orthodox&quot; Mormon history.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Who is in a better position to evaluate the church&#039;s efforts to make its history available? David Roberts (whom everybody at the library knew was a close friend and colleague of Jon Krakauer, within minutes of his walking in the door)? Or the anonymous Mike?

That is my explanation for skipping over comment #120 when I first saw it. Mike wasn&#039;t asking, wasn&#039;t interested in learning. He was telling, and his telling was so obviously uninformed, that it wasn&#039;t worth the effort of responding.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Velikye, it&#8217;s becoming harder and harder to read comments like #120 with a straight face, what with Elder Jensen all but going out on the street and dragging people into the archives and begging them to use the vast collections for whatever point of view they want to promote.</p>
<p>This deserves better exposure than comment 138 of a dead thread, so I&#8217;ll probably repeat this as a post at Keepapitchinin:  A few weeks ago, Simon &amp; Schuster released David Roberts&#8217;s <em>Devil&#8217;s Gate: The Great Mormon Handcart Tragedy</em>. This is a book very much in the interpretive strain of Will Bagley and David L. Bigler, and most BCC readers will probably protest some of the author&#8217;s conclusions and the sarcastic zingers that pepper the text. Yet even this author could write in his acknowledgements:</p>
<blockquote><p>I had anticipated a diffident or even suspicious reception when I started work in the LDS Archives in 2005. To my great surprise, the archivists, librarians, and historians in the Church History Library could not have been more welcoming and helpful. In 1964, Wallace Stegner had complained that the LDS library and archives were &#8220;open to scholars only reluctantly and with limitations.&#8221; Nothing could be further from the truth today. To my mind, the Archives now set a shining example of disinterested service to writers and researchers who will inevitably quarrel with and criticize &#8220;orthodox&#8221; Mormon history.</p></blockquote>
<p>Who is in a better position to evaluate the church&#8217;s efforts to make its history available? David Roberts (whom everybody at the library knew was a close friend and colleague of Jon Krakauer, within minutes of his walking in the door)? Or the anonymous Mike?</p>
<p>That is my explanation for skipping over comment #120 when I first saw it. Mike wasn&#8217;t asking, wasn&#8217;t interested in learning. He was telling, and his telling was so obviously uninformed, that it wasn&#8217;t worth the effort of responding.</p>
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		<title>By: Velikiye Kniaz</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/10/19/all-about-name-removal/#comment-26111</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Velikiye Kniaz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 18:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4272#comment-26111</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ardis, how did you miss that indictment of historians and Church history in #120? I would have expected you to come out with guns blazing. Evidently, the brother isn&#039;t fully aware that anti-LDS (Mormon) books, videos, etc. is a multi-million dollar business and that given any point in history and enough varied information on that incident, it can be &#039;spun&#039; any number of ways. Personally, I have made it a habit that if I want to assess a man&#039;s character I do not seek out the opinion of his enemies. The same holds true for institutions. But he also impugned Church sources and Church historians as being disingenuous. Have your associates fallen to this? Do you hold weekly &#039;disinformation&#039; meetings in the CHO? Tell us all, Ardis! Confession is good for the soul!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardis, how did you miss that indictment of historians and Church history in #120? I would have expected you to come out with guns blazing. Evidently, the brother isn&#8217;t fully aware that anti-LDS (Mormon) books, videos, etc. is a multi-million dollar business and that given any point in history and enough varied information on that incident, it can be &#8216;spun&#8217; any number of ways. Personally, I have made it a habit that if I want to assess a man&#8217;s character I do not seek out the opinion of his enemies. The same holds true for institutions. But he also impugned Church sources and Church historians as being disingenuous. Have your associates fallen to this? Do you hold weekly &#8216;disinformation&#8217; meetings in the CHO? Tell us all, Ardis! Confession is good for the soul!</p>
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		<title>By: Nora</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/10/19/all-about-name-removal/#comment-26110</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nora]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 17:18:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4272#comment-26110</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[With love,working to get inactives &quot;back in to the fold&quot; does improve one&#039;s personal righteousness.  If it is done under duress, not so much.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With love,working to get inactives &#8220;back in to the fold&#8221; does improve one&#8217;s personal righteousness.  If it is done under duress, not so much.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Evans</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/10/19/all-about-name-removal/#comment-26109</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Evans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 16:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4272#comment-26109</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great attitude Phil!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great attitude Phil!</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/10/19/all-about-name-removal/#comment-26108</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 15:12:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4272#comment-26108</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In answer to Phouchg&#039;s comment on #80&#039;s comment...

&quot;#80 “Inactive members are a very real burden. They sap the the time, energy and morale of active members. The same amount of time and effort would be much better spent proclaiming the gospel to those who have not heard it.”

Sorry I am such a burden on you. sheesh.&quot;
================================================
Speaking from &quot;in the trenches&quot; experience--I have been a clerk, during the past 38 years, for a total of about 25 years--Yes Phouchg you are a burden. But, that is primarily because someone in ward leadership always has an anecdote about a member coming back into activity after 40 years of inactivity, or the &quot;ninety and nine&quot; parable.

There is no counting of the cost (in time and stress) to the active members of continuing to (attempt) to contact those that do not want contact--often against the stated desires of the DNCs!

In our ward we have 25 families that have specifically (and usually with hostility) said they don&#039;t want to be members/want nothing to do with the church, etc. We have another 28 families that have declared they don&#039;t want HT or VT. With our current Bishop, we have no contact (other than from him) with the first 25 and send quarterly letters to the 28. This is a sensible middle ground, in terms of effort, and in terms of bothering people that don&#039;t want to be bothered.

However, it has not always been so. And, with every new, Ward Mission Leader and his fresh zealotry, there is an interest in mining that field (and bothering those people) again.

That, Phouchg, is an unwarranted burden--based on the (statistically) very slim hope of changing your mind. You are an agent unto yourself. To the extent that my efforts at trying to &quot;get you back into the fold&quot; aids me and my righteousness, my efforts are justified. Just going along with a traditional, and largely mythological, hope.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In answer to Phouchg&#8217;s comment on #80&#8242;s comment&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;#80 “Inactive members are a very real burden. They sap the the time, energy and morale of active members. The same amount of time and effort would be much better spent proclaiming the gospel to those who have not heard it.”</p>
<p>Sorry I am such a burden on you. sheesh.&#8221;<br />
================================================<br />
Speaking from &#8220;in the trenches&#8221; experience&#8211;I have been a clerk, during the past 38 years, for a total of about 25 years&#8211;Yes Phouchg you are a burden. But, that is primarily because someone in ward leadership always has an anecdote about a member coming back into activity after 40 years of inactivity, or the &#8220;ninety and nine&#8221; parable.</p>
<p>There is no counting of the cost (in time and stress) to the active members of continuing to (attempt) to contact those that do not want contact&#8211;often against the stated desires of the DNCs!</p>
<p>In our ward we have 25 families that have specifically (and usually with hostility) said they don&#8217;t want to be members/want nothing to do with the church, etc. We have another 28 families that have declared they don&#8217;t want HT or VT. With our current Bishop, we have no contact (other than from him) with the first 25 and send quarterly letters to the 28. This is a sensible middle ground, in terms of effort, and in terms of bothering people that don&#8217;t want to be bothered.</p>
<p>However, it has not always been so. And, with every new, Ward Mission Leader and his fresh zealotry, there is an interest in mining that field (and bothering those people) again.</p>
<p>That, Phouchg, is an unwarranted burden&#8211;based on the (statistically) very slim hope of changing your mind. You are an agent unto yourself. To the extent that my efforts at trying to &#8220;get you back into the fold&#8221; aids me and my righteousness, my efforts are justified. Just going along with a traditional, and largely mythological, hope.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark D.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/10/19/all-about-name-removal/#comment-26107</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark D.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 04:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4272#comment-26107</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;For a legal case to conclude that it is illegal to excommunicate someone who has requested that their name be removed is ridiculous to me because name removal is excommunication&quot;

It is certainly equally ridiculous to hold a church court to consider &lt;em&gt;whether&lt;/em&gt; to excommunicate a &lt;em&gt;former&lt;/em&gt; member, when indeed they have excommunicated themselves and cannot legally be treated as a member over their own objection.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;For a legal case to conclude that it is illegal to excommunicate someone who has requested that their name be removed is ridiculous to me because name removal is excommunication&#8221;</p>
<p>It is certainly equally ridiculous to hold a church court to consider <em>whether</em> to excommunicate a <em>former</em> member, when indeed they have excommunicated themselves and cannot legally be treated as a member over their own objection.</p>
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