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	<title>Comments on: Barneypalooza 2: Perceived Competence in Missionary Work</title>
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	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/11/01/barneypalooza-2-perceived-competence-in-missionary-work/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Velska</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/11/01/barneypalooza-2-perceived-competence-in-missionary-work/#comment-26194</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Velska]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 07:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4303#comment-26194</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We have five kids, and as far as I can tell, we have taught them all the gospel since we communicated with them. Because of their different personalities, some situations need to be handled differently. We have read the scriptures together as a family and have always talked about what we&#039;ve read. In some of them that has instilled the love for scriptures, others not so much.

Your results will vary. The kids are individuals, and they have individual experiences, which prepare them differently. My older son has had to delay his mission for health reasons, and the younger one is still not sure he&#039;s going. I don&#039;t think there&#039;s a patent solution to all of the questions.

My wife and I were both new converts when we served our missions, and that was what really made the gospel alive for us.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have five kids, and as far as I can tell, we have taught them all the gospel since we communicated with them. Because of their different personalities, some situations need to be handled differently. We have read the scriptures together as a family and have always talked about what we&#8217;ve read. In some of them that has instilled the love for scriptures, others not so much.</p>
<p>Your results will vary. The kids are individuals, and they have individual experiences, which prepare them differently. My older son has had to delay his mission for health reasons, and the younger one is still not sure he&#8217;s going. I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s a patent solution to all of the questions.</p>
<p>My wife and I were both new converts when we served our missions, and that was what really made the gospel alive for us.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/11/01/barneypalooza-2-perceived-competence-in-missionary-work/#comment-26193</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jerry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 03:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4303#comment-26193</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do agree that parents should be as involved as possible.  Sadly I see the same inability to communicate in many of the leaders and teachers in the many wards I have been in.  That just reiterates the point that they should not be relied to do it all or even most of it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do agree that parents should be as involved as possible.  Sadly I see the same inability to communicate in many of the leaders and teachers in the many wards I have been in.  That just reiterates the point that they should not be relied to do it all or even most of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Wesley Dean</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/11/01/barneypalooza-2-perceived-competence-in-missionary-work/#comment-26192</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wesley Dean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 19:56:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4303#comment-26192</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jerry, I appreciate everything you said.  I&#039;m sorry if I&#039;m unclear.  I was speaking from my own experience.  My parents never taught me ANYTHING about the gospel.  I learned everything I know from primary/seminary/personal study/etc.  And while I  am very grateful for all the amazing people who&#039;ve helped me become who I am today, it&#039;s a big wound to me that the list barely includes my parents.  Don&#039;t get me wrong, they were great providers, but they never provided me any spiritual teaching.  So maybe I&#039;m assuming too much about what a lot of other familes are like, but from what I know of the familes of the missionaries I served with, it doesn&#039;t seem so far off.  I loved your comment about communication.  That&#039;s exactly what I meant when I said teach your kids the doctrine of Christ!  In other words, do what you can to teach them to be Christians.  True Christians are always going to be missionaries, whether it&#039;s at home or abroad.

Jim, thanks, that&#039;s what I meant!

Deacon, I agree with you, and I think the Church is trying.  I think even if parents are new to the Church, or haven&#039;t had much experience, the Lord magnifies the efforts they do make.  All the Lord ever asks us is to lift where we stand.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerry, I appreciate everything you said.  I&#8217;m sorry if I&#8217;m unclear.  I was speaking from my own experience.  My parents never taught me ANYTHING about the gospel.  I learned everything I know from primary/seminary/personal study/etc.  And while I  am very grateful for all the amazing people who&#8217;ve helped me become who I am today, it&#8217;s a big wound to me that the list barely includes my parents.  Don&#8217;t get me wrong, they were great providers, but they never provided me any spiritual teaching.  So maybe I&#8217;m assuming too much about what a lot of other familes are like, but from what I know of the familes of the missionaries I served with, it doesn&#8217;t seem so far off.  I loved your comment about communication.  That&#8217;s exactly what I meant when I said teach your kids the doctrine of Christ!  In other words, do what you can to teach them to be Christians.  True Christians are always going to be missionaries, whether it&#8217;s at home or abroad.</p>
<p>Jim, thanks, that&#8217;s what I meant!</p>
<p>Deacon, I agree with you, and I think the Church is trying.  I think even if parents are new to the Church, or haven&#8217;t had much experience, the Lord magnifies the efforts they do make.  All the Lord ever asks us is to lift where we stand.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/11/01/barneypalooza-2-perceived-competence-in-missionary-work/#comment-26191</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jerry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 19:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4303#comment-26191</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jim,

I reread what he actually said and I am not trying to read his mind or between the lines but I don&#039;t think I misinterpreted it.  The bottom line is this whole post is about the premise that most missionaries are unprepared by not knowing the gospel well enough.  Not all as you indicate you know many that are prepared.  I know of very very few that has ever gone to the MTC that didn’t feel the spirit at least a few times.   A 16 year old boy that is focused on mission only will not be very good at talking about anything else when he is 19.

Part of being a good missionary is communication and the ability to build friendships and I have to say the companions I had that were so over prepared were the worst teachers I have ever seen.  I had one that knew the scriptures inside out and backwards but we never taught anyone ever the discussion was presented and they avoided us from then on.  As soon as he left I was teaching a dozen (mission average was 4/wk) discussions a week with a companion that may not have ever read a book before his mission.  He could communicate and he loved the people where the other guy did not.  Teach your kids to love the people they work with and let people see the joy of life in their eyes and they will be good missionaries.  Not whether they con quote scripture and know the doctrine in great detail.  This gospel is about joy and happiness to focus on stupid things like white shirts and memorization is exactly what Satan wants us to focus on.

If we look at what it takes to be a good home teacher being a missionary is the same.  Does the guy care?  If so he can read the lesson and be effective if not he never will be.  I would suggest that it isn&#039;t a lack gospel teaching that makes us select which missionary to expose your friends to it is whether they care.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,</p>
<p>I reread what he actually said and I am not trying to read his mind or between the lines but I don&#8217;t think I misinterpreted it.  The bottom line is this whole post is about the premise that most missionaries are unprepared by not knowing the gospel well enough.  Not all as you indicate you know many that are prepared.  I know of very very few that has ever gone to the MTC that didn’t feel the spirit at least a few times.   A 16 year old boy that is focused on mission only will not be very good at talking about anything else when he is 19.</p>
<p>Part of being a good missionary is communication and the ability to build friendships and I have to say the companions I had that were so over prepared were the worst teachers I have ever seen.  I had one that knew the scriptures inside out and backwards but we never taught anyone ever the discussion was presented and they avoided us from then on.  As soon as he left I was teaching a dozen (mission average was 4/wk) discussions a week with a companion that may not have ever read a book before his mission.  He could communicate and he loved the people where the other guy did not.  Teach your kids to love the people they work with and let people see the joy of life in their eyes and they will be good missionaries.  Not whether they con quote scripture and know the doctrine in great detail.  This gospel is about joy and happiness to focus on stupid things like white shirts and memorization is exactly what Satan wants us to focus on.</p>
<p>If we look at what it takes to be a good home teacher being a missionary is the same.  Does the guy care?  If so he can read the lesson and be effective if not he never will be.  I would suggest that it isn&#8217;t a lack gospel teaching that makes us select which missionary to expose your friends to it is whether they care.</p>
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		<title>By: Deacon</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/11/01/barneypalooza-2-perceived-competence-in-missionary-work/#comment-26190</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deacon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 22:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4303#comment-26190</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wesley - I agree with your comments regarding the parents responsibility. However the fact of the matter is this doesn&#039;t happen through a number a reasons. The most recognisable being parents that didn&#039;t serve missions, the struggle of part member families, parents not members of the church. I live in England and see the reasons why children may not be taught the skills and understanding of missionary work. because of this I feel the church can formalise some education pre missions aside from seminary / institute.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wesley &#8211; I agree with your comments regarding the parents responsibility. However the fact of the matter is this doesn&#8217;t happen through a number a reasons. The most recognisable being parents that didn&#8217;t serve missions, the struggle of part member families, parents not members of the church. I live in England and see the reasons why children may not be taught the skills and understanding of missionary work. because of this I feel the church can formalise some education pre missions aside from seminary / institute.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/11/01/barneypalooza-2-perceived-competence-in-missionary-work/#comment-26189</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4303#comment-26189</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jerry,

Wesley hardly needs me to back him up, but I agreed 100% with his comment.  And I think you misread his post.

As I read it, he is merely pointing out that parents should not rely on the Church to prepare sons and daughters for missionary service.  And that preparation cannot begin too soon.

If our children have their first spiritual experiences in the MTC or on their mission, we have missed the boat as parents.

He said nothing about &quot;force teaching&quot; our kids.  Instead, if I understood him correctly, he indicated that by living and teaching the gospel in our homes, our children from an early age will gain their own testimonies and will be familiar with the language of the Spirit.  This is no way implies that children cannot have fun or have full, balanced lives.

I have seen many 19 year olds that are very mature and well prepared to serve.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerry,</p>
<p>Wesley hardly needs me to back him up, but I agreed 100% with his comment.  And I think you misread his post.</p>
<p>As I read it, he is merely pointing out that parents should not rely on the Church to prepare sons and daughters for missionary service.  And that preparation cannot begin too soon.</p>
<p>If our children have their first spiritual experiences in the MTC or on their mission, we have missed the boat as parents.</p>
<p>He said nothing about &#8220;force teaching&#8221; our kids.  Instead, if I understood him correctly, he indicated that by living and teaching the gospel in our homes, our children from an early age will gain their own testimonies and will be familiar with the language of the Spirit.  This is no way implies that children cannot have fun or have full, balanced lives.</p>
<p>I have seen many 19 year olds that are very mature and well prepared to serve.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/11/01/barneypalooza-2-perceived-competence-in-missionary-work/#comment-26188</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jerry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4303#comment-26188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wesley,

As a parent of those kids your talking about I think you are lost in space.  If you really want mature informed capable missionaries send them at 21 like the girls.  Fact is a 19 year is what he is and mature, capable young men are few and far between.  It is almost like you want them to give up their youth so they can be better missionaries.  The main question is do want to wait until full maturity or do you want them to come home mature and strong in the church?  There is nothing fundementally wrong with the way it is.  If you don&#039;t want your friends taught by some immature kid teach them youselves.

No matter what you do there will be less than desirable side effects.  If they go later than many will be married and not go and if they go earlier then they are immature.

I had companions of all levels on my mission and I strongly disagree with the notion you can force teach these kids to be better missionaries.  The bottom line is the best missionaries are the one that focused on other things besides the gospel growing up.  They must be aboe to have a conversation with people if they are going to teach.  I do find it encouraging that so many are interested in seeing these kids succeed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wesley,</p>
<p>As a parent of those kids your talking about I think you are lost in space.  If you really want mature informed capable missionaries send them at 21 like the girls.  Fact is a 19 year is what he is and mature, capable young men are few and far between.  It is almost like you want them to give up their youth so they can be better missionaries.  The main question is do want to wait until full maturity or do you want them to come home mature and strong in the church?  There is nothing fundementally wrong with the way it is.  If you don&#8217;t want your friends taught by some immature kid teach them youselves.</p>
<p>No matter what you do there will be less than desirable side effects.  If they go later than many will be married and not go and if they go earlier then they are immature.</p>
<p>I had companions of all levels on my mission and I strongly disagree with the notion you can force teach these kids to be better missionaries.  The bottom line is the best missionaries are the one that focused on other things besides the gospel growing up.  They must be aboe to have a conversation with people if they are going to teach.  I do find it encouraging that so many are interested in seeing these kids succeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Wesley Dean</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/11/01/barneypalooza-2-perceived-competence-in-missionary-work/#comment-26187</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wesley Dean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 18:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4303#comment-26187</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not the Church that needs to do a better job of preparing missionaries, it&#039;s the parents of the Church!  And it&#039;s not effective to begin teaching children how to feel the the Spirit and teach the gospel when they&#039;re sixteen, or eighteen and a 1/2!  It has to start as soon as possible.  If children truly &quot;taste&quot; the doctrines of Christ from a young age, they will &quot;become&quot;, rather than simply &quot;do.&quot;  And when the big responsibilities come (missions/marriage/kids/diffucult callings/etc)they&#039;ll be ready, prepared, and willing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not the Church that needs to do a better job of preparing missionaries, it&#8217;s the parents of the Church!  And it&#8217;s not effective to begin teaching children how to feel the the Spirit and teach the gospel when they&#8217;re sixteen, or eighteen and a 1/2!  It has to start as soon as possible.  If children truly &#8220;taste&#8221; the doctrines of Christ from a young age, they will &#8220;become&#8221;, rather than simply &#8220;do.&#8221;  And when the big responsibilities come (missions/marriage/kids/diffucult callings/etc)they&#8217;ll be ready, prepared, and willing.</p>
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		<title>By: Deacon</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/11/01/barneypalooza-2-perceived-competence-in-missionary-work/#comment-26186</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deacon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 10:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4303#comment-26186</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On two occasions as a missionary I visited referrals outside of my boundaries (although still in the same ward) because the members trusted my companion and I with their friends rather than the designated companionship for that area.

A stake should have missionary preparation seminars, lessons as standard and these issues should be adressed as priority.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On two occasions as a missionary I visited referrals outside of my boundaries (although still in the same ward) because the members trusted my companion and I with their friends rather than the designated companionship for that area.</p>
<p>A stake should have missionary preparation seminars, lessons as standard and these issues should be adressed as priority.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/11/01/barneypalooza-2-perceived-competence-in-missionary-work/#comment-26185</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jerry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 19:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4303#comment-26185</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Isn&#039;t the main purpose of the nineteen year old missionary to come home converted himself?  I&#039;ve seen very very few missionary found and babtized members that stay long after the missionary leaves.  See for some stats &quot;www.cumorah.com&quot; I can&#039;t verify all of the stats given there but it certainly doesn&#039;t support missionary effectiveness.  But I came home having been converted in a way I never would have here at home or even if I had stayed stateside.

I think the church offers us so little in the way guiding ourselves spritiually in our regular meetings that sending these teenagers out is about all that is left to really get them in touch with the spirit.

On the flip side getting kids to go is so important to most local leaders in my area that if a kid doesn&#039;t act excited about a mission by 16 they get after them pretty hard.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t the main purpose of the nineteen year old missionary to come home converted himself?  I&#8217;ve seen very very few missionary found and babtized members that stay long after the missionary leaves.  See for some stats &#8220;www.cumorah.com&#8221; I can&#8217;t verify all of the stats given there but it certainly doesn&#8217;t support missionary effectiveness.  But I came home having been converted in a way I never would have here at home or even if I had stayed stateside.</p>
<p>I think the church offers us so little in the way guiding ourselves spritiually in our regular meetings that sending these teenagers out is about all that is left to really get them in touch with the spirit.</p>
<p>On the flip side getting kids to go is so important to most local leaders in my area that if a kid doesn&#8217;t act excited about a mission by 16 they get after them pretty hard.</p>
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