Comments on: On Fetuses, Babies, and Bathwater

By: Brad

Brad — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 01:15:42 +0000

This might have turned out to be a failed experiment. I hesitate to yoke sir Evans with further policing duty since I will not be minding the thread until tomorrow (you guys should see the moderation queue). There are some here with whom I’d like to continue dialog, so they might look for emails. Otherwise, thanks for playing, but the comments are closed.

By: Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:51:09 +0000

Good for you, Matt. I suppose that is why you should feel free to use such severe language on your own site, as we’ll probably just censor you here.

Updated: Matt, how about if you take a break from commenting for a while.

By: Matt Evans

Matt Evans — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:48:48 +0000

Kathryn, I’m more of a William Lloyd Garrison style abolitionist myself. Tell a man whose house is on fire to give a moderate alarm.

“I am aware that many object to the severity of my language; but is there not cause for severity? I will be as harsh as truth, and as uncompromising as justice. On this subject, I do not wish to think, or speak, or write, with moderation. No! no! Tell a man whose house is on fire, to give a moderate alarm; tell him to moderately rescue his wife from the hand of the ravisher; tell the mother to gradually extricate her babe from the fire into which it has fallen; — but urge me not to use moderation in a cause like the present…I will not retreat a single inch.”

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4h2928t.html

By: Martin Willey

Martin Willey — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:46:16 +0000

Brad: Excellent post. Your work on this, and the resulting comments, demonstrate that abortion is a very complex issue. And, that political consideration of abortion is usually pretty simplistic.

By: StillConfused

StillConfused — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:43:27 +0000

Even describing it as nicely as you did, partial birth abortion sounds really gross and sad. For everyone involved.

By: Eric Russell

Eric Russell — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:32:35 +0000

Were it not for SSM and abortion, the ‘nacle would not be. We have reason to be grateful for both.

By: Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:26:24 +0000

…as the moderation queue now attests. Seriously folks, I dislike talking about abortion in general and on BCC in particular. Please please please don’t behave boorishly.

By: Kathryn Soper

Kathryn Soper — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:24:23 +0000

Matt, there’s snarkiness, and there’s mudslinging. I think you just crossed that line.

By: John Mansfield

John Mansfield — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:18:24 +0000

I didn’t catch on at first that this is a post about politics. Though Brad may try to claim it for him, Obama can’t claim for himself that he supports IDX due to concerns for the fetus’s experience. It is only possible to approve a form of abortion if the fetus’s experience is taken out of consideration, perhaps as something that doesn’t really exist. I seriously doubt any statements by Obama or anyone else supporting the legality of IDX can be found that consider the pro and cons of different forms of prenatal death from the fetus’s perspective. If there is something wrong with a particular method of inflicting a painful death on a late-term fetus, then felony convictions for those involved in causing the any death of a late-term fetus would be what we seek in our laws.

By: Kathryn Soper

Kathryn Soper — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:11:42 +0000

More study results:
http://www.holysmoke.org/fem/fem0543.htm

The chart for early abortion was interesting. 13% of women reported “fetus has possible health problem,” 7% had a health problem themselves, and 1% were victims of rape or incest.

It’s worth mentioning that, logically speaking, victims of rape or incest will choose abortion sooner rather than later. As rare as these abortions are in the first trimester, they’d certainly be even less common in the second trimester (the option isn’t even listed on the late-term abortion chart). So for LDS, that leaves risks to mothers’ and unborn babies’ health as the allowed reasons for late-term abortion most likely to be applicable. “Problem with fetus” was cited as a cause for late-term abortion in only 2% of the women surveyed, and “health emergency for mother” isn’t even on the chart.