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	<title>Comments on: Four Minutes of Meaning</title>
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		<title>By: Clark</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/12/29/four-minutes-of-meaning/#comment-106915</link>
		<dc:creator>Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 03:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As I said I think the more Stoic notion is attributed to him because it is in Will to Power.  However as I noted this is a deeply problematic text for numerous reasons not the least of which being how much creative editing his sister did.  It&#039;s also mainly notes which while interesting to careful scholars is anything but a completed work reflecting his conclusions.

Most people I know are pretty leery about buying into Will to Power as reflecting Nietzsche&#039;s thought.  Even those who do use it use it carefully.  On the other hand the Heideggarian reading of Eternal Recurrance and Will to Power (the concept, not the book) are interesting here.  I&#039;m not sure I buy them as reflecting Nietzsche&#039;s thought but they sure make me think.

I do agree though about folks waiting for the next life to make everything nice.  I think the whole theme of Joseph&#039;s teaching is that heaven is what we make.  There&#039;s a very Nietzschean element in Joseph Smith.  I used to joke that Nietzsche is what you get if you made Joseph an atheist.  Not entirely true of course but there&#039;s a strong element of truth to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I said I think the more Stoic notion is attributed to him because it is in Will to Power.  However as I noted this is a deeply problematic text for numerous reasons not the least of which being how much creative editing his sister did.  It&#8217;s also mainly notes which while interesting to careful scholars is anything but a completed work reflecting his conclusions.</p>
<p>Most people I know are pretty leery about buying into Will to Power as reflecting Nietzsche&#8217;s thought.  Even those who do use it use it carefully.  On the other hand the Heideggarian reading of Eternal Recurrance and Will to Power (the concept, not the book) are interesting here.  I&#8217;m not sure I buy them as reflecting Nietzsche&#8217;s thought but they sure make me think.</p>
<p>I do agree though about folks waiting for the next life to make everything nice.  I think the whole theme of Joseph&#8217;s teaching is that heaven is what we make.  There&#8217;s a very Nietzschean element in Joseph Smith.  I used to joke that Nietzsche is what you get if you made Joseph an atheist.  Not entirely true of course but there&#8217;s a strong element of truth to it.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveP</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/12/29/four-minutes-of-meaning/#comment-106914</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Clark, I agree. Some people still talk about it as if it were his belief, but knowing the rest of his work I suspected he was just making a metaphor of how one should live life. And as &lt;em&gt;that&lt;/em&gt; I&#039;ve found it useful. What if we had to live this again and again? We would certainly take our choices seriously, have way more fun, and live a little more fully. I worry sometimes when I hear members make comments as if this life were just a way station and it&#039;s the next life were all the action is. A little Nietzschean recurrence would do them some good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clark, I agree. Some people still talk about it as if it were his belief, but knowing the rest of his work I suspected he was just making a metaphor of how one should live life. And as <em>that</em> I&#8217;ve found it useful. What if we had to live this again and again? We would certainly take our choices seriously, have way more fun, and live a little more fully. I worry sometimes when I hear members make comments as if this life were just a way station and it&#8217;s the next life were all the action is. A little Nietzschean recurrence would do them some good.</p>
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		<title>By: Clark</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/12/29/four-minutes-of-meaning/#comment-106913</link>
		<dc:creator>Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Steve, I think Nietzsche&#039;s version of Eternal Recurrance is justifiable as an ethical point.  (i.e. live so that &lt;i&gt;if&lt;/i&gt; life was endlessly repeated it would be a positive and not a negative)  However in the collection questionably edited by his sister he has a more robust version that is explicitly metaphysical ala the old Stoic notion.  That seems deeply problematic and is tied to a naive and erroneous view of infinity.

I kind of like the ethical view of the eternal recurrance as both an affirmation of life as well as recognizing a fulfilling life as the selection of high powers.  Going beyond that is kind of far fetched in my view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, I think Nietzsche&#8217;s version of Eternal Recurrance is justifiable as an ethical point.  (i.e. live so that <i>if</i> life was endlessly repeated it would be a positive and not a negative)  However in the collection questionably edited by his sister he has a more robust version that is explicitly metaphysical ala the old Stoic notion.  That seems deeply problematic and is tied to a naive and erroneous view of infinity.</p>
<p>I kind of like the ethical view of the eternal recurrance as both an affirmation of life as well as recognizing a fulfilling life as the selection of high powers.  Going beyond that is kind of far fetched in my view.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt W.</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/12/29/four-minutes-of-meaning/#comment-106912</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>re (12) Wow, that just summed up everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re (12) Wow, that just summed up everything.</p>
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		<title>By: Tatiana</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/12/29/four-minutes-of-meaning/#comment-106911</link>
		<dc:creator>Tatiana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks, SteveP, Ray, and Steve Evans.  I like all of you, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, SteveP, Ray, and Steve Evans.  I like all of you, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Evans</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/12/29/four-minutes-of-meaning/#comment-106910</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 04:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Tatiana, I sure like you.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tatiana, I sure like you.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/12/29/four-minutes-of-meaning/#comment-106909</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 04:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Tatiana, that really is beautiful.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tatiana, that really is beautiful.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/12/29/four-minutes-of-meaning/#comment-106908</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 04:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Steve, I apologize for the confusion.  Let me try to say it differently.

To me, human life has a purpose, but human life also has a &quot;meaning&quot;.  They are connected but different things.  Phrased differently, I would ask, &quot;What does it mean to be alive as a human?&quot;  Perhaps, &quot;What is unique about human life?  What does &#039;human life&#039; mean as opposed to a simple definition of &#039;life&#039;?&quot;  I think once we define what human life &quot;means&quot;, we are able to see a &quot;meaning&quot; for life - which leads to a &quot;purpose&quot; in life.

To me, &quot;human life&quot; means &quot;life as a spirit child of God in mortality&quot; - which gives a &quot;meaning&quot; of a stage of potential progression toward godliness - which gives a &quot;purpose&quot; of becoming like God.  What I am saying is that &quot;meaning&quot; usually is discussed in terms of &quot;purpose&quot; - but that our Mormon purpose is influenced by the very way we define human life (the meaning we assign of that life).  Others who define life differently (assign it a meaning without a direct, evolutionary link to God) naturally reach different purposes for life.  &quot;Becoming like God&quot; never enters the picture for them, since it isn&#039;t connected to the meaning they assign to their lives.

So, in a nutshell, I also reach the conclusion that the meaning of life is change - with the purpose of a specific type of change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, I apologize for the confusion.  Let me try to say it differently.</p>
<p>To me, human life has a purpose, but human life also has a &#8220;meaning&#8221;.  They are connected but different things.  Phrased differently, I would ask, &#8220;What does it mean to be alive as a human?&#8221;  Perhaps, &#8220;What is unique about human life?  What does &#8216;human life&#8217; mean as opposed to a simple definition of &#8216;life&#8217;?&#8221;  I think once we define what human life &#8220;means&#8221;, we are able to see a &#8220;meaning&#8221; for life &#8211; which leads to a &#8220;purpose&#8221; in life.</p>
<p>To me, &#8220;human life&#8221; means &#8220;life as a spirit child of God in mortality&#8221; &#8211; which gives a &#8220;meaning&#8221; of a stage of potential progression toward godliness &#8211; which gives a &#8220;purpose&#8221; of becoming like God.  What I am saying is that &#8220;meaning&#8221; usually is discussed in terms of &#8220;purpose&#8221; &#8211; but that our Mormon purpose is influenced by the very way we define human life (the meaning we assign of that life).  Others who define life differently (assign it a meaning without a direct, evolutionary link to God) naturally reach different purposes for life.  &#8220;Becoming like God&#8221; never enters the picture for them, since it isn&#8217;t connected to the meaning they assign to their lives.</p>
<p>So, in a nutshell, I also reach the conclusion that the meaning of life is change &#8211; with the purpose of a specific type of change.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveP</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/12/29/four-minutes-of-meaning/#comment-106907</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 04:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Tatiana, That was beautiful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tatiana, That was beautiful.</p>
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		<title>By: Tatiana</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/12/29/four-minutes-of-meaning/#comment-106906</link>
		<dc:creator>Tatiana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 04:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=4495#comment-106906</guid>
		<description>I had a very powerful internal physical feeling that life was completely meaningless back when I was an atheist.  Now I have the opposite feeling deeply in my bones, that every situation, every tiny act and every fleeting moment have meaning far beyond my ability to comprehend.  Somehow since developing a partnership with God, this has happened to me.  It&#039;s not something I chose. It&#039;s as physical as an adolescent&#039;s developing sexuality.  As physical as suicidal depression.  It just happened.

I think the meaning of life, rather than being any sort of intellectual left-brained thing, is just this physical feeling, the joy of drawing breath, of looking, of being alive.

How I ache for those who don&#039;t feel it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a very powerful internal physical feeling that life was completely meaningless back when I was an atheist.  Now I have the opposite feeling deeply in my bones, that every situation, every tiny act and every fleeting moment have meaning far beyond my ability to comprehend.  Somehow since developing a partnership with God, this has happened to me.  It&#8217;s not something I chose. It&#8217;s as physical as an adolescent&#8217;s developing sexuality.  As physical as suicidal depression.  It just happened.</p>
<p>I think the meaning of life, rather than being any sort of intellectual left-brained thing, is just this physical feeling, the joy of drawing breath, of looking, of being alive.</p>
<p>How I ache for those who don&#8217;t feel it.</p>
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