Comments on: Should racism be a temple recommend question?

By: Zack

Zack — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:07:43 +0000

I think this is a very compelling idea. I don’t find anyone’s that’s-just-human-nature-so-of-course-there-are -racists-in-the-church-and-we-just-have-tolive-with-it arguments very compelling. The temple recommend interview is ABOUT being held to a high standard. Racism has no place in the gospel of Jesus Christ. I tend to think it has no place in the temple either. I live in a ward that’s about half white (mostly Utah, Idaho and California stock) and half black (African American, African and Haitian). I have been very disturbed by the racist attitudes of many members. Placing a question along those lines in the temple recommend interview might not yield very honest answers. But the same argument could be used for the law of chastity, testimony, honesty, etc… Having such a question in the temple recommend interview might encourage people to be a little more introspective and lead to some much-needed repentance. As it is, I am incredibly grateful when the GAs condemn racism in General Conference and wish they would do it a lot more. It is a pernicious evil among our people that needs to be rooted out. It is entirely inconsistent with the savior’s teaching and with temple covenants, so I think there’s a very compelling argument to make for adding it to the interview, whether people would be entirely honest about it or not.

By: Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:04:40 +0000

At last! Thanks JM.

By: John Mansfield

John Mansfield — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:54:51 +0000

Steve Evans, I’ve got it. The WISQARS Injury Mortality Database reports that 25,116 blacks suffered fatal injuries in 2005. You just have to sort through the major causes and find those most attributable to white people. Good luck.

http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html

By: Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:11:19 +0000

Just checking.

By: John Mansfield

John Mansfield — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:57:51 +0000

No, execution by the state is not counted as homicide. It looks like 42 people were executed in the United States in 2007, and over the last thirty years, 34% of the 1138 people executed in the United States were black.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf

By: Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:47:00 +0000

Heh. Does the FBI chart count the death penalty as homicide?

By: John Mansfield

John Mansfield — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:21:37 +0000

"'there aren't millions of black people being put to death every year by white people in the United States' "No, just thousands." No, just 245.

By: Mark Brown

Mark Brown — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:06:18 +0000

DavidGou,

I think you have conceded that racism continues to be a problem in the church, correct? If so, let’s just leave it at that and say that Kaimi’s post addresses a real problem. If I have misunderstood you and you think that racism is not an ongoing problem among us, I suggest you give it a rest and quit digging yourself in deeper.

By: Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:48:59 +0000

“there aren’t millions of black people being put to death every year by white people in the United States”

No, just thousands.

By: DavidGou

DavidGou — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:41:09 +0000

Mark Brown.
President Hinckley, in this address, didn’t say a word about the past murders, raping, or torture. He talked about present racial slurs. Let’s reproduce those words here, so that Mark can point out why I’m a bad Mormon for not listening to President Hinckley denounce past racism.
“Now I am told that racial slurs and denigrating remarks are sometimes heard among us. I remind you that no man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ. Nor can he consider himself to be in harmony with the teachings of the Church of Christ. How can any man holding the Melchizedek Priesthood arrogantly assume that he is eligible for the priesthood whereas another who lives a righteous life but whose skin is of a different color is ineligible?
Brethren, there is no basis for racial hatred among the priesthood of this Church. If any within the sound of my voice is inclined to indulge in this, then let him go before the Lord and ask for forgiveness and be no more involved in such.”

The fact that racial injustice and bigotry has exists now and in the past is a problem. But the type of bigotry that exists today is not the same in degree as it used to be. President Hinckely did not address the degrees that you care about the most. The ongoing problem that was addressed by President Hinckley is one not possessed by any race in particular. I do not disagree with President Hinckley on this, and find it quite ironic that you would accuse me of disagreeing with President Hinckley, when I do agree with him, and that in the past, when you disagreed with the joint actions of the first presidency and twelve, were indignant that anyone expect you to agree with them. It’s ironic on just so many levels. “Why not just listen to the prophet on this one?” I do Mark, but I also listen to him on R-rated movies, believing in the eternal nature of gender, and that gay-marriage is wrong.

I have seen no statistical evidence that my personal experience is a statistical aberration, Mark. And if you would care to actually provide some, instead of accusing me of apostasy for not believing everything you do, I would gladly change my mind to match the data. But I won’t do it just to fit in. The truth is, that there aren’t millions of black people being put to death every year by white people in the United States. And while the root cause of racism is still alive and well (pride and enmity) that cause can and does affect all races.