Today’s Monday Morning Non-Theological Poll
Do you know a member of the church (yourself or someone else) who is addicted to one of the following things? (More than one answer is possible)
[Edited to add:] Please include all eating disorders with overeating; Please include all sexual disorders with pornography. Please add anything else you need to in the comments.
Please react to the poll, comment anonymously (or onymously) on your answer, or say something silly below.
One sticking point: Being mean is not allowed.
March 2, 2009 at 9:12 am
How do you define member of the church?
I am of the opinion that ‘pornography’ and ‘addiction’ are too often lumped together in the church, as if you can’t have porn without an addiction to it.
March 2, 2009 at 9:21 am
Let’s call them “eating disorders” rather than overeating Johnny.
March 2, 2009 at 9:23 am
Where’s Diet Coke, breakfast of champions?
March 2, 2009 at 9:30 am
I think I know someone in every category except gambling. Odd. My own particular vices are Diet Pepsi and homemade chocolate chip cookies.
I do know that the folks at LDS Family Services who deal with addiction indicate that the men they are counseling with for addiction to gambling or alcohol, are also addicted to porn, almost without exception.
March 2, 2009 at 9:30 am
Diet Coke would certainly win.
March 2, 2009 at 9:33 am
I would amend “Cigarettes” to “Tobacco.”
March 2, 2009 at 9:35 am
How about an option for “No I do not,” so we compare that to the rest of the numbers.
March 2, 2009 at 9:35 am
Not that I drink the vile stuff.
March 2, 2009 at 9:35 am
Does “blogging” not rate its own category? :) (Okay, I guess it fits in the last one.)
March 2, 2009 at 9:37 am
Hunter (#6), or Tomacco.
March 2, 2009 at 9:40 am
Hmmm. Drugs usually imply illegal drugs, but of course prescription drugs are a real problem. Sadly, I am not able to sleep without bonafide prescription pills. However, my prescription has not changed in fifteen years. There are some nuances here. I have a sleeping disorder. Others have to take anti-depressants, which would also qualify as drugs. I’d modify that question a bit. Drugs such as crystal meth, heroine, cocaine, or anything Rush Limbaugh has confessed to. (He is addicted to meanness, though, which is not allowed in this survfey.)
March 2, 2009 at 9:55 am
How are we defining “addicted?” Are we assuming all users are addicted?
March 2, 2009 at 9:59 am
I adore World of Warcraft. I’m already “exalted” there. But, alas, I don’t really have time to play anymore.
March 2, 2009 at 10:03 am
I have assumed addiction to drugs, for this poll, to mean abusive use of prescription or illegal drugs, which gives Margaret an out. The individual I know of is addicted to Oxycontin, Rush’s drug of choice. It has led to meanness, also like Rush. Circumstantial? I think not.
March 2, 2009 at 10:06 am
Although, as has been discussed in other posts, chronic intense pain can also lead to meanness.
March 2, 2009 at 10:13 am
While I agree with mmiles’ (#1) point re: pornography, I won’t say I verbalize support here, lest everyone think I view porn myself.
March 2, 2009 at 10:42 am
Hmm, I don’t know anyone personally (that I know of) who is addicted to any of these things. I agree that you need to have a voting button that would allow for that, as well as one for caffeinated beverages!
March 2, 2009 at 10:47 am
I guess I know someone in every category except online (or otherwise) gaming and gambling. But if the membership is made up of members of the Earth, of course we would know members with these struggles. And I don’t think it is that big of a deal — meaning, it is a big deal to the person suffering with the addiction, and painful for the family and friends, but I don’t think it is a big deal in the “oh noes!!! someone is doing something naughty on a regular basis!!!” kind of way. People have problems, addictions are otherwise, and those problems will be around for as long as people are around. People will be dealing with them the best they can and with the help of the Lord, hopefully, will be able to make progress on overcoming them.
March 2, 2009 at 10:48 am
correction = addictions or [not are] otherwise
March 2, 2009 at 10:59 am
There is a distinction between physical dependence/addiction and psychological dependence/addiction. Detoxification can end the purely physical dependence/addiction, but not the psychological dependence. Thus, many soldiers who returned from Vietnam addicted to heroin were able to give it up after going through detoxification and modest rehabilitation, only 12% of those who were addicted in Vietnam became re-addicted after their return. http://www.bookrags.com/research/vietnam-follow-up-study-edaa-03/
March 2, 2009 at 10:59 am
7 for 7.
March 2, 2009 at 11:14 am
Mush all eating disorders together with overeating. Mush all sexual disorders together with porn. Mush all drug abuse together. I leave it to the voter to decide what qualifies as addiction or as a member.
As to those of you lucky enough to not know anybody who is an addict, that’s what the comments are for.
March 2, 2009 at 11:18 am
John, you need a none of the above bucket as a control group for this. You aren’t catching a large percent of your demorgraphic. (ie- people who don’t know if anyone who has one of these problems).
March 2, 2009 at 11:48 am
Amazing to me that a person with a disorder who needs prescription drugs has no sympathy for Limbaugh who got addicted to pain killers due to chronic back pain. Just because we hate someone it doesn’t mean we can’t sympathize with them.
March 2, 2009 at 11:51 am
I assume I know people who are compulsive pornography users, but since they haven’t shared that with me, I’ll have to go with 0 for 7. Same caveat probably applies to others in the list.
March 2, 2009 at 12:00 pm
I know various members that use all or any of those things, but wouldn’t feel comfortable labeling them as addicted. I know too many people that rush to identify someone that uses pornography or does something that goes against the WoW as an addict.
March 2, 2009 at 12:08 pm
No one realizes they are addicted until they try to stop and can’t. Even then a surprising number of people choose to disregard their inability to stop and consider themselves casual partakers of a minor vice.
March 2, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Well, not no one, how about few. Few realize…
March 2, 2009 at 12:28 pm
The sort of addiction to Oxycontin and other pain killers that I have know about started with a prescription for pain, but the user, with a previous history of addictive behavior, ramped up quickly to abusive levels, which included doctor shopping, buying pharmaceuticals online from foreign countries, and in some cases, through really questionable illegal third parties. Part of the addiction aspect is the increasing disregard for external constraints, for the concerns of loved ones, and for one’s own safety and well being. That for me tells me when it crosses over from legitimate usage of prescription drugs to addiction. The same would apply for video game addiction, for addiction to porn, and addiction to gambling, or any other addictive behavior.
If the prescription drugs help you to function as a normal human being in the eyes of your peers, that’s not a problem. When you don’t care what others think of you, that is a problem.
I have heard a local stake president mention that there have been divorces in his stake over video game addiction. Jami, I think you’ve described how this usually goes. Everyone else knows it is a problem long before the addict does, and then they come up with all sorts of rationalizations about their inability to quit.
March 2, 2009 at 12:32 pm
BTW, I’m willing to cut Rush some slack, because it appears that he has it under control now. In all fairness, the drugs didn’t make him mean. I think he was already mean before.
March 2, 2009 at 12:54 pm
I know church members addicted to the first three plus tobacco. I have a hard time defining overeating. Morbidly obese?
March 2, 2009 at 1:06 pm
bbell, I think that morbidly obese can’t really be the definition. There are plenty of plenty of thin people who have eating disorders. I’d say the same kind of issues are involved in food addiction. The inability to stop whichever food behavior (binge eating, bulimia, anorexia, food rituals, etc.) is a big part of the definition. Add in lying, hiding, stealing, going from store to store so no one realizes the quantity of food being consumed, and in general acting weirdly about food. I think one of the fundamental issues of addiction is turning to the [sex, porn, tobacco, food, internet, pain meds, alcohol, etc] to escape or artificially enhance reality. Overeating is just one manifestation of food addiction. (It’s my issue, btw.)
March 2, 2009 at 1:08 pm
I know members in all categories except for the gambling. In lieu of gambling, I could add that I know plenty of members who start or participate in multi-level marketing businesses/scams. And I would say that the addiction mentality is similar in both — trying to be handed money that was not earned by the sweat of one’s brow.
I do find that people who are very religious often time (in my limited experience) also have a higher propensity towards addiction issues. There may be something similar in the personality types.
March 2, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Can someone be addicted to online poll taking?
March 2, 2009 at 1:18 pm
I attest that we all have some addiction or another. As human beings we all have certian wants that become needs yet exist beyond the survival necessities.
You should have included some of my favorites: Shopping, Movies (including G Rated), T.V., Music, I bet the if included the numer 1 addiction in the LDS Church membership would either be Golf, Basketball, or Fishing.
Me for one, I have an addiction to my family, it is an unnatural craving to spend all the time I can with them.
I have even commuted daily to a business conferance and home on a three day venture 150 miles between. (of course my child was only 8 months old) I’d consider that addiction.
-D
March 2, 2009 at 2:08 pm
http://people.hbs.edu/bedelman/papers/redlightstates.pdf
Utah leads nation in Internet Porn subscriptions. Weird and interesting.
March 2, 2009 at 2:20 pm
kevinf, so given #30, we could update #14 to say: “Circumstantial? I think so.” BTW, I am not advocating we cut Rush slack on his prescription drug abuse, but just that we should have sympathy for anyone who gets addicted to a prescription drug they legitimately need. Really sucks, as lots of people can attest.
March 2, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Jacob J, I have an addiction to Rush-bashing that I cannot control.
March 2, 2009 at 3:58 pm
# 36, you might want to read another article before you assume that the one you read was entirely accurate:
http://www.getreligion.org/?p=8408
Also, T&S has a good post by Adam Greenwood, with more discussion, and pertinent links.
March 2, 2009 at 4:00 pm
nlroper, the Get Religion debunking is a bit off. But always good to throw traffic the way of T&S.
March 2, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Yeah, T&S sorta needs the extra love these days. BCC is kicking its trash. Oh wait . . .
March 2, 2009 at 4:14 pm
zoiks!
March 2, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Ok, I have personally had addictions to 3 of the catagories and probably would have had two more except that my husband was smart enough to keep me away from them. The only addiction I have left is an eating disorder, although the whole diet soda thing is a bit out of control as well. Of course, I didn’t join the church until I was 36 so I had more of a chance to develop addictions than most of you.
Is there a point to this survey?
March 2, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Steve, I would love to hear specifically why you think GetReligion’s article is a bit off. And in response to the poll, I’ve known a couple of young men who had serious trouble with porn, and have heard, anecdotally, that it is a big, pervasive problem at BYU. Also, since I’ve been dieting, I’ve decided that I am definitely addicted to food. Drat!
One more comment, then I’ll go take shelter somewhere…
I love Rush Limbaugh. I think he is funny, a classic happy warrior for conservatives, very satirical, and a master at puncturing liberal pretensions and wrongheadedness. (Which is not to say that I think all liberals are pretentious and wrongheaded, or that liberals are the only people who are pretentious and wrongheaded.) I love that he unabashedly loves America, and wants to maintain the core, founding principles that have made it such a great nation of freedom and democracy. I guess you could say I’m addicted to his honesty, optimism and fearlessness.
March 2, 2009 at 9:48 pm
This is the best commentary I’ve ever seen on addiction. These young boys have much to teach us.
March 2, 2009 at 11:41 pm
I can’t be the only one that thinks that if you don’t get 7 out of 7 you either
A. Don’t know many people
or
B. Don’t know the people you do know well enough.
March 2, 2009 at 11:56 pm
About Pornography and Mormons. Sorry, I read the T&S after I made the post. However, this thread was on members of the church being addicted to, among other things, pornography. The article referred to was published in a refereed journal by a reputable scholar.
Benjamin Edelman is Assistant Professor of Business Aministration, Harvard Business School, Boston, Massachusetts.
Granted the data is a hint at the possible underlying connections, but the hint is rather strong. I mean, he even points out that registrations drop in the religious states on Sundays. The data is internally consistent and substantial.
Is there something about religion which makes people more prone to be addicted to pornography? The data seem to suggest this. Or perhaps the non-mormons in Utah are 8 times more addicted to pornography because they are embedded with the righteous?
March 3, 2009 at 4:20 am
We have adult bookstores within 20 minutes of us in two directions. People around here just go rent a movie for their porn fix. Unless things have changed, I don’t think you can do that in Utah.
March 3, 2009 at 6:08 am
I can quit anytime I want.
I wish you’d all just lay off for once. ~
March 3, 2009 at 6:24 am
re: Pornography in Utah.
It seems very likely to me that there are more people _paying_ for online porn in Utah because that is the primary outlet for people so inclined. In Seattle, you can pay into the sex industry in many ways, many of which are more directly enticing than online porn and easily available. I’d never of thought of paying for porn in Seattle, because when I wanted some kind of sexual experience and was up for paying for it, there were places to go.
We now live in Logan, and a couple times I’ve thought … you know, I couldn’t have committed any of those sins here. I could, however, have paid for online porn and almost certainly would have. ~
March 3, 2009 at 7:15 am
One guys wife went to visit family for the week and he spent over 40 hours straight playing WoW missing appointments and church. But I have seen people addicted to all sorts of online stuff, especially facebook, doing their hitman, mob war, hippy van, poking, birthday cake, drug and ninja deals. I mean facebook is just for looking up high school classmates and seeing pictures of how old they have gotten.
March 3, 2009 at 10:13 am
I request a post from Steve on what he finds “a bit off” on the get religion article. There’s much more “off” with the original paper than there is with the get religion post.
March 3, 2009 at 10:05 pm
Ditto, madchemist. I asked, but he hasn’t responded.
March 3, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Have either of you read the original paper? I’m not talking about the New Scientist article, which I agree was pretty hopelessly slanted.
Sorry, no time to write the post for you.
March 3, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Since the comments are closed on the actual post, I thought I’d leave a note here to say thank you to BCC for putting the “50 Conversations About One Thing” piece together. I found it incredibly interesting and thought provoking. You guys are quite smart and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
March 3, 2009 at 11:59 pm
I’m going to disagree with Ronito and say that I don’t know anyone that I would feel comfortable classifying as “addicted” to any of these things. I think that word is tossed around much too carelessly. To me, it means more than a frequent user. It means someone who has lost control. I can’t think of anyone that I’m sure is an out of control user of these things.
March 4, 2009 at 8:11 pm
MCQ (#56): Thanks for a sensible point. Surely not all overuse of a substance is addiction. I seriously doubt, for example, whether many people are actually addicted to Diet Coke, at least not unless they are drinking the stuff by the gallon. And I am not sure what “addiction” means in reference to something like pornography rather than substance abuse. The word is far too over-used.