Comments on: Big Love: Res Publica

By: Bill Hess

Bill Hess — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 08:58:15 +0000

I do not have HBO and have never watched “Big Love,” although I think I must.

I did not hear about this until this morning, when I climbed into my car in an Anchorage Wal-Mart parking lot, spotted two Mormon missionaries nearby, turned on the car and the radio came on to NPR’s “Talk of the Nation.”

The first words that I heard were, “I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.”

I put an illustrated account on my blog, which you can find here:

http://wasillaalaskaby300.squarespace.com

By: Tom Zelaney

Tom Zelaney — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:16:27 +0000

I thought that the Endowmnet excerpts were handled sensitively – however, I saw Barb enter at the head of those stairs and reach for the newel post and froze thinking she was reaching with hter right hand across her left to the post on her left just as if she were about to dip into the Holy Water and cross herself. The whol movement was exactly as a Catholic would do on entering a church. I almost fell of my seat with expectation. But she must have caught herself in time.

As for keep our rituals secret, this strikes me as amusing in that I can find old, revised and all forms of mormon rites on the internet at will. Worse yet after seeing that they’re authentic, I don’t know what we’re all in an uproar about. I thought the ceremonial clothing was tastefully handled – I thought it reminded me of the nuns in my grammar school.
But as to exposing all of Mormon ritual to public view, I would oppose that simply because I do not find it ritualistic enough to pass muster or sufficiently elevating to endure comparison to Episcopal or Roman ceremonial. I comes across as Masonic jargon combined with cartoonish movements and unintelligible symbolism. We would suffer from its exposure.

By: Homer

Homer — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 06:25:25 +0000

Daveonline,

Thanks for your clarification. I reread your post and can see your deeper point. Unlike some of the commenters on this Big Love Brouhaha, I’m not sure that the writers were conspiring to find a way to really get the Mormons. There are some compelling dilemmas that can be explored here.

I appreciated your further post: “In the case of Adam and Eve and Mormons today, do we fully recognize and appreciate that in order to truly live the blessings of a committed love (both in a marriage and in the larger community), they must accept hardship, humility and opposition as opposed to the fantasy that the world exists to serve and provide for me and that I can please everyone.”

Too often, young mormon newlyweds leave the sealing room thinking they have finally arrived, that everything is finished. Just wait for the blessings that are owed to the righteous and everything will be bliss. And relieved parents echo that sentiment thinking that all their worries are over, because they finally got them to the temple. With apologies to the Carpenters. “We’ve Only Just Begun . . .”

By: DavidH

DavidH — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 05:27:18 +0000

FWIW, my doctor, who is a spiritual but nonobservant Jew very interested in all religion, talked to me about Big Love after my appointment this morning (he brought it up because he knows my religion). He told me he thought the scenes in the temple were beautiful, that he felt a real peace and sense of joyous wonderment in the ritual and sacred language. While, after I explained the reaction of most Latter-day Saints as a feeling of violation, he understood, he still commented again about what a beautiful ceremony he thought it was.

By: Tyler

Tyler — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 04:28:13 +0000

Jeff Day:
My guess is (and J. Stapley please correct me if I am wrong), that he was referring to your linked website.

By: daveonline

daveonline — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:20:53 +0000

Homer,
I certainly agree with you on the Eve framing of this situation, though I did not mean to frame it so much as choose current lover over eternal blessing. And I agree on the whole issue of love being played in daily details that clarify and cement the commitments of love.
I was more interested in the internal psychological contradictions of the character and translating that to the context of a Mormon community faced with the task of spiritual brothers and sisters who may mock and oppose. Does the same dramatic background apply to Adam and Eve when they leave the garden? Do we and they see themselves as “heroic martyrs”? Do Mormons now see themselves as heroic martyrs? If so, then I would propose there is also an internal contradiction with more fundamental beliefs. In the case of Adam and Eve and Mormons today, do we fully recognize and appreciate that in order to truly live the blessings of a committed love (both in a marriage and in the larger community), they must accept hardship, humility and opposition as opposed to the fantasy that the world exists to serve and provide for me and that I can please everyone?

Extending to one more theme here about “Well, good things will come of this.” While I agree that it is true, it is also the foundational paradox of Christianity that “Good things will come of slaughtering and sacrificing our God” and if we forget that, we risk losing appreciation and respect for the pain that was incurred for the good things to happen.

By: DKL

DKL — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:03:57 +0000

Nate Oman, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.

By: Homer

Homer — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:04:53 +0000

Regardless of my feelings about the HBO use of sacred rituals on TV, as far as the story goes I think Barb’s dilemma touches on an almost Eve-ish moment of choice. I confess I might just be a romantic fool, but sorry daveonline, I don’t think the choice is not as simple as current lover vs. eternal blessings. With all of our talk about being on earth to be tested, this is a big one. I think God wants to see how we do in the face of these kinds of challenges–what is our commitment to loving someone? Does it end for us the moment we have to change a diaper? When we have to put up with the quirks of another personality? What might we sacrifice for love? Do we sacrifice our lives, our desires, our own ambitions for another whom we love? Should we? Does love of the community trump the intimate love of an individual?

If Barb suddenly recants and leaves her love and rejoins the church, then what is she as an individual? Is that a victory for some side? What would any of us do if we were commanded to leave our spouse–by the police, the government, the church, by someone with a gun? What if God commanded it?

If we are able to numb our sentiments to the point of dumping our spouses because the Stake President tells us to we are dangerously close to the unimaginable horror of the contemporary FLDS situation with the reassigning of wives and sending men into exile while new, more acceptably righteous men take their places in their beds.

By: daveonline

daveonline — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 06:55:11 +0000

I have not watched Big Love, nor have much interest in it, not if much TV in general. I was struck though by the irony in the comments about the moving acting of someone who feels great sorrow about being excommunicated from a church she believes is very wrong in its beliefs about marriage. This “noble” person bravely accepting losing eternal blessing because of her commitment to a higher good. It makes no sense to me. Perhaps she is really too afraid to leave her marriage and the sorrow is a personal one about not having the courage to move away from a mistake? That seeems more plausible than the implication that she is being truly valid to a belief of plural marriage. If she internally truly believed she was right, I could accept that what could be left is sorrow at not being able to be “friends” with everyone and to accept that not every one will like me. But sorrow at losing eternal blessings – No – unless she is trapped in a mistaken choice.
This set of questions for Barb also captures the paradox of many Mormons to this situation. Why are we outraged/surprised that someone might speak poorly of us? Are we sorry for losing the esteem of everyone? Or are we trying to justify a condemning view of the world, because our own hearts are misaligned with harsh judgements of the outside world and thus the background music in our own lives portrays us as the nobel wounded hero?

By: Jeff Day

Jeff Day — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 06:21:02 +0000

J. Stapley,

You say “…and Jeff Day has started a fundamentalist schismatic church! Great.” How exactly did you derive that conclusion from my comment?

To those who have spoken about the Church logo, if the Church really wanted to draw closer to Christianity, they would probably adopt the Cross into their logo art. There seems to be a balance being struck, a line that is not being crossed at this point.