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	<title>Comments on: The Social Science of Mormonism Q&amp;A, Part I</title>
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	<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/08/31/the-social-science-of-mormonism-qa-part-i/</link>
	<description>A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Ryan Cragun</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/08/31/the-social-science-of-mormonism-qa-part-i/#comment-157250</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan Cragun]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 12:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bycommonconsent.com/?p=11459#comment-157250</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE: Heritability of religiosity

The best research I&#039;ve seen on this is twin studies.  Two studies suggest a nearly .50 correlation between twins reared apart on religiosity:
-Bouchard, Thomas J. Jr., David T. Lykken, Matthew McGue, Nancy L. Segal, and Auke Tellegen. 1990. “Sources of Human Psychological Differences: The Minnesota Study of Twins Reared Apart.” Science 223-228.
-Waller, N. G., B. A. Kojetin, T. J. Jr. Bouchard, D. T. Lykken, and A. Tellegen. 1990. “Genetic and environmental influences on religious interests, attitudes, and values: A study of twins reared apart and together.” Psychological Science 1:138-42.

Additionally, there is at least one article that supports Rick&#039;s assertion that socialization does translate into a strong influence on adolescent religiosity but there is no correlation between emerging adulthood religiosity (young adults) and parental religiosity:
Arnett, Jeffrey Jensen, and Lene Arnett Jensen. 2002. “A Congregation of One: Individualized Religious Beliefs Among Emerging Adults.” Journal of Adolescent Research 17:451-467.

In short, there may be something of a genetic component to religiosity, but it definitely isn&#039;t well-understood at this point.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: Heritability of religiosity</p>
<p>The best research I&#8217;ve seen on this is twin studies.  Two studies suggest a nearly .50 correlation between twins reared apart on religiosity:<br />
-Bouchard, Thomas J. Jr., David T. Lykken, Matthew McGue, Nancy L. Segal, and Auke Tellegen. 1990. “Sources of Human Psychological Differences: The Minnesota Study of Twins Reared Apart.” Science 223-228.<br />
-Waller, N. G., B. A. Kojetin, T. J. Jr. Bouchard, D. T. Lykken, and A. Tellegen. 1990. “Genetic and environmental influences on religious interests, attitudes, and values: A study of twins reared apart and together.” Psychological Science 1:138-42.</p>
<p>Additionally, there is at least one article that supports Rick&#8217;s assertion that socialization does translate into a strong influence on adolescent religiosity but there is no correlation between emerging adulthood religiosity (young adults) and parental religiosity:<br />
Arnett, Jeffrey Jensen, and Lene Arnett Jensen. 2002. “A Congregation of One: Individualized Religious Beliefs Among Emerging Adults.” Journal of Adolescent Research 17:451-467.</p>
<p>In short, there may be something of a genetic component to religiosity, but it definitely isn&#8217;t well-understood at this point.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Cragun</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/08/31/the-social-science-of-mormonism-qa-part-i/#comment-157248</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan Cragun]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 12:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bycommonconsent.com/?p=11459#comment-157248</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE: Mike and Rick&#039;s discussion of the religiosity of social scientists...

I have unpublished data on this from members of SSSR.  I haven&#039;t looked at the data from this for years (it&#039;s circa 2004 and was used in my MA Thesis), but what I have says that in 2004 about 14% of SSSR members reported their religion as &quot;None.&quot;

As far as belief goes, 34% are either atheists, agnostics, or deists (mostly agnostics and deists).  And as far as attendance goes, only about 8% rarely or never attend, while close to 70% attend very frequently.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: Mike and Rick&#8217;s discussion of the religiosity of social scientists&#8230;</p>
<p>I have unpublished data on this from members of SSSR.  I haven&#8217;t looked at the data from this for years (it&#8217;s circa 2004 and was used in my MA Thesis), but what I have says that in 2004 about 14% of SSSR members reported their religion as &#8220;None.&#8221;</p>
<p>As far as belief goes, 34% are either atheists, agnostics, or deists (mostly agnostics and deists).  And as far as attendance goes, only about 8% rarely or never attend, while close to 70% attend very frequently.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Cragun</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/08/31/the-social-science-of-mormonism-qa-part-i/#comment-157247</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ryan Cragun]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 12:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bycommonconsent.com/?p=11459#comment-157247</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE: Mike #21 - 

Mike Nielsen was right - I meant PhD programs in Sociology as those are good Sociology PhD programs with prominent sociologists of religion.

(Sorry to be so late to the game.  I followed most of this earlier in the week, but was swamped with classes and child care.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: Mike #21 &#8211; </p>
<p>Mike Nielsen was right &#8211; I meant PhD programs in Sociology as those are good Sociology PhD programs with prominent sociologists of religion.</p>
<p>(Sorry to be so late to the game.  I followed most of this earlier in the week, but was swamped with classes and child care.)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Nielsen</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/08/31/the-social-science-of-mormonism-qa-part-i/#comment-157011</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Nielsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 03:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bycommonconsent.com/?p=11459#comment-157011</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And I should add that one of the things I like about MSSA is that it offers a chance to discuss things like this across disciplines. Most academic organizations don&#039;t facilitate cross-disciplinary discussions like this, but at MSSA I have a chance to have a conversation with a sociologist, economist, and anthropologist on topics we are interested in.  It is stimulating in a way that psychology conferences can&#039;t be.

OK, that&#039;s the end of the commercial for MSSA.  :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I should add that one of the things I like about MSSA is that it offers a chance to discuss things like this across disciplines. Most academic organizations don&#8217;t facilitate cross-disciplinary discussions like this, but at MSSA I have a chance to have a conversation with a sociologist, economist, and anthropologist on topics we are interested in.  It is stimulating in a way that psychology conferences can&#8217;t be.</p>
<p>OK, that&#8217;s the end of the commercial for MSSA.  :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Nielsen</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/08/31/the-social-science-of-mormonism-qa-part-i/#comment-157009</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Nielsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 03:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bycommonconsent.com/?p=11459#comment-157009</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#43, 47
Dan, you are right that there would seem to be many, many implications for the research... especially for a faith like Mormonism, that is rather materialistic.  (By that, I mean we have in our canon such ideas as matter not being created ex nihilo, etc.)  

Most psychologists would not leap from research on the role of heritability and environment to assert that free will isn&#039;t part of the human condition.  But at the same time, most would agree that our range of options is constrained greatly by heredity and environmental forces. So, from an LDS perspective we may have free will, but it may not be as broad and unfettered as we believe it to be.  And I think that most people would probably recognize this in their own choices; we see that our options are  limited by our physical characteristics and our situation.  The glitch is, that we don&#039;t see such limitations in others.  
http://www.wisegeek.com/in-social-psychology-what-is-fundamental-attribution-error.htm

The other thing I&#039;d add is that finding a comfortable reconciliation between Mormonism&#039;s materialistic view and the implications of the scientific research is not a simple thing. For example, you ask if premortals have genes.  If genes are essential for distinguishing whether one is male vs female, and if the proclamation on the family is correct and gender (or sex, depending on one&#039;s academic discipline) is eternal , then it would seem important to find a way to connect those areas of study. I don&#039;t believe that anyone has accomplished that, although I&#039;d appreciate being pointed in the direction of someone who has done that work.

So, I agree that the questions you pose are important ones. They don&#039;t seem to me to have been answered very well yet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#43, 47<br />
Dan, you are right that there would seem to be many, many implications for the research&#8230; especially for a faith like Mormonism, that is rather materialistic.  (By that, I mean we have in our canon such ideas as matter not being created ex nihilo, etc.)  </p>
<p>Most psychologists would not leap from research on the role of heritability and environment to assert that free will isn&#8217;t part of the human condition.  But at the same time, most would agree that our range of options is constrained greatly by heredity and environmental forces. So, from an LDS perspective we may have free will, but it may not be as broad and unfettered as we believe it to be.  And I think that most people would probably recognize this in their own choices; we see that our options are  limited by our physical characteristics and our situation.  The glitch is, that we don&#8217;t see such limitations in others.<br />
<a href="http://www.wisegeek.com/in-social-psychology-what-is-fundamental-attribution-error.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.wisegeek.com/in-social-psychology-what-is-fundamental-attribution-error.htm</a></p>
<p>The other thing I&#8217;d add is that finding a comfortable reconciliation between Mormonism&#8217;s materialistic view and the implications of the scientific research is not a simple thing. For example, you ask if premortals have genes.  If genes are essential for distinguishing whether one is male vs female, and if the proclamation on the family is correct and gender (or sex, depending on one&#8217;s academic discipline) is eternal , then it would seem important to find a way to connect those areas of study. I don&#8217;t believe that anyone has accomplished that, although I&#8217;d appreciate being pointed in the direction of someone who has done that work.</p>
<p>So, I agree that the questions you pose are important ones. They don&#8217;t seem to me to have been answered very well yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike McBride</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/08/31/the-social-science-of-mormonism-qa-part-i/#comment-157005</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike McBride]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 03:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bycommonconsent.com/?p=11459#comment-157005</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think one distinction worth making in this discussion on heritability is between genetic factors passed down and socialization.  The studies and theory I am familiar with say that the latter is a very strong and persistent force but without saying anything about the former.  In other words, parents play an important role (of course!), but it is in raising their children in their own faith not in passing on a God gene.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one distinction worth making in this discussion on heritability is between genetic factors passed down and socialization.  The studies and theory I am familiar with say that the latter is a very strong and persistent force but without saying anything about the former.  In other words, parents play an important role (of course!), but it is in raising their children in their own faith not in passing on a God gene.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Weston</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/08/31/the-social-science-of-mormonism-qa-part-i/#comment-157002</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Weston]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 02:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bycommonconsent.com/?p=11459#comment-157002</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael and Rick, thanks for the info. Let me switch hats from social science to theology...

What are the implications for Free Agency? If mortals are in some sense predisposed towards or against religiosity, what about premortals? Do they even have genes? If so, were they already hardwired not to have faith in God&#039;s wisdom? Were these the ones who followed Lucifer?

Except that, according to &quot;two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil&quot; (1 Nephi 14:10), it would seem that every premortal (and mortal) actively believes something (for good or bad). Was there an implicit third choice (no church). or is the devil&#039;s church nonbelief itself? If so, how is it that nonbelievers became mortal? If not, and some people are disinclined to believe anything they cannot see (e.g. Doubting Thomas), is this a form of spiritual blindness, akin to physical blindness, and if so, is this exculpatory before God? Assuming premortals got to choose the level of &quot;challenge&quot; they would face on earth (with promise of concomitantly greater rewards for greater challenges), perhaps I have overreached in choosing these genes? (But then, what would have been my incentive to do so?)

I am obviously no theologian (just a man with lots of questions), but it seems that this implications from this nexus of heredity and religiosity would be very important to believers. Ironically, it is of no particular importance to atheists, for whom it produces benign tautology rather than disturbing paradox.

Any thoughts?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael and Rick, thanks for the info. Let me switch hats from social science to theology&#8230;</p>
<p>What are the implications for Free Agency? If mortals are in some sense predisposed towards or against religiosity, what about premortals? Do they even have genes? If so, were they already hardwired not to have faith in God&#8217;s wisdom? Were these the ones who followed Lucifer?</p>
<p>Except that, according to &#8220;two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil&#8221; (1 Nephi 14:10), it would seem that every premortal (and mortal) actively believes something (for good or bad). Was there an implicit third choice (no church). or is the devil&#8217;s church nonbelief itself? If so, how is it that nonbelievers became mortal? If not, and some people are disinclined to believe anything they cannot see (e.g. Doubting Thomas), is this a form of spiritual blindness, akin to physical blindness, and if so, is this exculpatory before God? Assuming premortals got to choose the level of &#8220;challenge&#8221; they would face on earth (with promise of concomitantly greater rewards for greater challenges), perhaps I have overreached in choosing these genes? (But then, what would have been my incentive to do so?)</p>
<p>I am obviously no theologian (just a man with lots of questions), but it seems that this implications from this nexus of heredity and religiosity would be very important to believers. Ironically, it is of no particular importance to atheists, for whom it produces benign tautology rather than disturbing paradox.</p>
<p>Any thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Phillips</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/08/31/the-social-science-of-mormonism-qa-part-i/#comment-156996</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rick Phillips]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 01:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bycommonconsent.com/?p=11459#comment-156996</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#45 - The decline of family effects, as hereditary differences break through the social environment, is equally worthy of emphasis, and is a source of great sadness for many devout Mormon parents.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#45 &#8211; The decline of family effects, as hereditary differences break through the social environment, is equally worthy of emphasis, and is a source of great sadness for many devout Mormon parents.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Weston</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/08/31/the-social-science-of-mormonism-qa-part-i/#comment-156993</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Weston]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 01:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bycommonconsent.com/?p=11459#comment-156993</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dang that missing &lt;/i&gt; tag! Obviously, only the first paragraph is a quote from Wikipedia. Still, the correlation (causation?) between genetics and religiosity is worthy of emphasis.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dang that missing &lt;/i&gt; tag! Obviously, only the first paragraph is a quote from Wikipedia. Still, the correlation (causation?) between genetics and religiosity is worthy of emphasis.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Phillips</title>
		<link>http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/08/31/the-social-science-of-mormonism-qa-part-i/#comment-156992</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rick Phillips]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 01:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bycommonconsent.com/?p=11459#comment-156992</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: #34 Dan

I am talking mostly about the intensity of religiosity. Imagine that religiosity is normally distributed and ranges from 0 (completely irreligious) to 10 (completely devout). Imagine a new church seeking members that is so &quot;greedy&quot; that only 10s will freely assume the high cost of membership. If 1000 such people join, the mean religiosity of church members would be 10. But if these 1000 people intermarry and produce 1000 children, it is inconceivable that this second generation could ever have a mean religiosity of 10 when they become adults. 

This is not to say that the religiosity of the second generation wouldn&#039;t be profoundly influenced by the parents, but the parents are from such an extreme point on the religiosity curve that regression to the mean among the children is inevitable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: #34 Dan</p>
<p>I am talking mostly about the intensity of religiosity. Imagine that religiosity is normally distributed and ranges from 0 (completely irreligious) to 10 (completely devout). Imagine a new church seeking members that is so &#8220;greedy&#8221; that only 10s will freely assume the high cost of membership. If 1000 such people join, the mean religiosity of church members would be 10. But if these 1000 people intermarry and produce 1000 children, it is inconceivable that this second generation could ever have a mean religiosity of 10 when they become adults. </p>
<p>This is not to say that the religiosity of the second generation wouldn&#8217;t be profoundly influenced by the parents, but the parents are from such an extreme point on the religiosity curve that regression to the mean among the children is inevitable.</p>
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