When the Christian Fellowship at my father’s school learned that he was a Mormon, they kicked him out. He joined the Islamic Student Association instead. While experiences like these undoubtedly happen, they also seem to reinforce an unfortunate trend: Mormon students often belong exclusively to organizations like LDSSA or Ruben J. Clark Societies, while not belonging to or associating with other Christian groups on campus.
The message this sends to the campus Christian community at large is that Mormons are not interested in engaging with other Christians, or are not in fact Christians. Since discussing this problem with other Mormon students, it appears that Mormons often choose to isolate themselves because they feel that Christian communities on campus do not want them there or do not consider them Christian. However, acquiescing to this feeling continues to allow others to define Mormonism for us. If we fail to engage with others, then we lose valuable opportunities to define our religion on our own terms and to change widespread views of Mormonism amongst other Christian faiths.
We don’t necessarily need to join or attend all Christian fellowship meetings at universities (though we should worry less about doing so since at most schools you will not be kicked out). But I am suggesting that at a minimum we ought to take more opportunities to work with other Christian groups.
November 1, 2009 at 6:06 pm
So the fact that mormons don’t belong to christian groups on campus (because when they join they are kicked out!) sends a message that mormons are not interested in engaging? Are you aware of any non-lds christian groups that allow mormons to join?
November 1, 2009 at 6:07 pm
I’m inclined to agree with you, but I also wonder if “defining Mormonism” through outreach to Christians is any more a priority than defining Mormonism through outreach to anybody else (like, say, Muslims). I personally don’t feel an awful lot of kinship with (non-Mormon) Christian friends, at least not kinship dependent primarily on our shared interest in Jesus–since it is precisely our differing views about Jesus that cause disagreement. I wonder if service organizations or other interest groups would be a better venue for outreach–places in which we can act Christlike, among Christians and others, while completely bypassing (and, ideally, obviating) the “are we Christian” question.
November 1, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Your father is to be commended. They have much better food at the Islamic Association functions.
Seriously, sounds like he dodged a bullet by getting the boot from a group that is actively asking people to leave, even though they are attending an extra meeting voluntarily.
During my graduate education, the Bible Study group let me crash their party for a few years. I don’t recall any particular bad vibes, but maybe we just did a good job of fooling each other.
November 1, 2009 at 6:30 pm
I find other Christian groups simply have nothing to offer me worth the effort to join their group.
November 1, 2009 at 6:34 pm
A fundamental problem is one of definitions:
Do we believe the Muslim “Allah” and our “God” are different names for the same “being”, or are our concepts of Allah and God different enough that they aren’t compatible?
On a similar note, even though we may use the same word “Christ” when wanting to be considered a “Christian” as many other groups, I would argue that our differences in how we approach and define Christ are fundamentally at least as different as that between God and Allah.
This whole thing is very different from last generation, when BRM essentially called all of these other Christian denominations the church of the devil.
November 1, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Both of my sons have attended Bible study groups at high school and the oldest at the university. I think these Bible study groups wanted to “convert the heathen”. It has been good for my boys, as future missionaries, they learn what the rest of the Christian world believes.
November 1, 2009 at 7:22 pm
I would suggest that most students have so many Mormon activities going on that they are encouraged or expected to attend, that it leaves little time for participation in other religious groups and activities.
November 1, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Well a lot of us just aren’t evangelical Protestants and have more in common with our Catholic peers. By using “non-denominational” language many of the campus “Christian” groups represent an attempt to take/retain control of the generic label Christian when in fact they are rather sectarian representatives of a particular branch of Protestantism.
There are interfaith dialogue groups, which would never in a million years dream of kicking out a member of a religious minority. I was a member of one in college, and I know a fair number of other Mormons that have been.
I don’t know of any active pan-Christian campus organizations. I would be curious to hear whether they exist. (Again, “non-denominational” evangelical Protestant groups are not pan-Christian as I understand it.)
November 1, 2009 at 8:28 pm
Good move by your father.
My high school Fellowship of Christian Athletes during my tenure there determined that Mormons were not Christian and therefore could not belong. Two missionaries were invited to come and contest the case. These were probably the best missionaries I’ve ever known. I wasn’t present for the appeal, but they lost, and the original decision stood. So far as I know, in that high school at least, the decision has stoo all of these years.
November 1, 2009 at 8:34 pm
I went to the Bible Study at my high school (at least partly because I had a crush on the guy who led it one year), and no one seemed bothered. Me being Mormon never came up, but since another girl at my school would tell people what church she belonged to by saying “I go to Vada’s church” (and people understood that) I can’t imagine that no one there knew. They might just have been hoping I’d start to believe in the “real” Jesus, though.
November 1, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Not only did my high school’s Fellowship of Christian Athletes allow Mormons, but one year a Mormon was president. She was also the president of the Young Democrats club. She definitely made me see Mormons differently. (I was not and am not LDS.)
I’m Protestant and my view of Mormons is that they are Christians and can even be saved, and thus even if I disagree with them on some things, our foundation is the same and thus we have a lot to offer each other. (I went to an LDS church for the first time recently, by the way, and liked it a lot.)
Is the impression I’m getting correct in that Mormons don’t really see other Christians the same way? I’ve heard some vague things from the missionaries about how all religions have some truth, which I do actually appreciate–Evangelical Christians are unlikely to say something like that, and I really like the semi-Universalism of Mormonism–but are traditional Christians and Hindus or Muslims really the same to you?
November 1, 2009 at 9:57 pm
In my freshman year the president of the “Campus Crusade for Christ,” and good friend of my roommate’s boyfriend, found out I was Mormon. He just said, “Oh, I know about them” really ominously, and henceforth refused to speak to me or even acknowledge my presence.
To his credit, my roommate’s boyfriend, an exceedingly evangelical Evangelical and member of the Campus Crusade, never treated me badly and seemed embarrassed by his friend’s rudeness. He’s an all around outstanding person and takes the label Christian as seriously as just about anyone I’ve known.
But there’s no way I’d be going to one of their events after that.
November 1, 2009 at 10:12 pm
I went to Baptist Student Union meetings at my college–which was all you needed to do to be considered a “member” of that BSU–because they served lunch and they usually had interesting speakers. There were no other Mormons at my school, and there were very few Mormons in the region period, so there was no Institute or LDSSA to belong to. I did have one Mormon friend who found my fraternization concerning, in a “these people aren’t your friends” way.
Certainly a lot of evangelical Christians are suspicious of Mormons, but it goes in the other direction, too. In my own experience, the vast majority of evangelicals I’ve interacted with were either completely indifferent to my Mormonism, or else they found me so exotic that they befriended me just to satisfy their curiosity. Certainly some of them were interested in converting me (not an inherently offensive desire), but others were simply fascinated that I was real.
I think Mormons could benefit from interacting more with the world in general. The problem is that we tend to have such active social networks with other Mormons–sort of unavoidable when you give so much time to the church, with callings and VT/HT and whatnot–that there’s not a lot of time left over for the rest of the world, nor is there much of a pull if you’re getting all your social needs met within your church group.
November 2, 2009 at 6:27 am
I’m a bit old for campus christians groups but I have been excused from a home school group because my brand of christianity wasn’t christian enough. They may have let me slip through and be a member, as long as i was never in charge of anything and never taught anything (their words)…but I actually listed my religion on the application-which implied that I was going to be actively proselyting. Most “christian” homeschool groups I have attempted to join have a specific statement of faith clause that says we believe the bible only-no other books. They also have a “we believe the trinity” statement…which counts me out as well.
I ended up starting my own small group with mostly baptist ladies..it was a great experience.
November 2, 2009 at 7:58 am
It is my understanding that the current rules of the Law Christian Fellowship (“LCF”) do not allow Mormons to hold any positions of leadership. (At least that is what I was told when I visited a school that had a very small Mormon population)
At the law school I attend, it does seem that the LDS law students are friends with quite a few of the other religious students. Because of our shared values, I think it is natural to become friends with each other. Of course, I agree that there is much more we can and should do.
My school is off to a good start with this topic. Just law week we had a joint service project with the Law Christian Fellowship. We also just sent out an invitation on our e-mail list for a speaker that LCF was hosting after they had reached out to us to make sure we were invited. (These events sound familiar Natalie?
) There is also talk about having a social event in the future (Bible Jeopardy??). We can definitely do more, but I think we’ve got a good start.
November 2, 2009 at 8:29 am
But I am suggesting that at a minimum we ought to take more opportunities to work with other Christian groups.
Ya mean like Prop 8?
Natalie, Do you have any data to support the claim that we’re not?
Protestant Christians excluding Mormons extends far beyond the University clubs. I know, first hand, of wards and stakes reaching out to local Christian congregations for service projects – and being repeatedly rejected.
Sure, its our job to be patient, forgiving and persistent – but it seems that the only projects other Christians want to partner with us on are the controversial political ones that need financial backing.
November 2, 2009 at 11:12 am
Natalie, your post seems to suggest that Mormons aren’t working enough with creedal Christians — is that right? I find that a very odd premise. To my knowledge, Mormon students at universities and law schools are often very willing and open to work with and become part of organizations hosted by other religions, whether creedal Christian or otherwise (e.g. Muslim, interfaith, etc.). Anecdotally, I am aware of many instances in which Mormon students have been denied access to membership in such groups because of their Mormon identity and beliefs.
But it sounds positive that you are experimenting with attending creedal Christian clubs at your law school.
November 2, 2009 at 11:47 am
By the way, it’s the J. Reuben Clark Law Society (http://www.jrcls.org/). One thing you might try is to join that one and then work to organize a joint service project between the JRCLS and your newfound creedal Christian friends in the creedal Christian clubs and see what reception you get — that is, if you want to test your thesis that Mormons aren’t working enough with creedal Christians out of Mormon insularity.
November 2, 2009 at 11:51 am
I was president of the JRCLS student chapter at my law school and was also asked to serve as an officer in the Christian law student association. We always had great relations. It may have been that they were unpopular enough that they were willing to accept supporters wherever they could find them.
November 2, 2009 at 12:02 pm
The link incorporated the final parenthesis so it’s not working — follow this link for the J. Reuben Clark Law Society:
http://www.jrcls.org/
November 2, 2009 at 4:10 pm
In my opinion, it comes down to time. I’m already in school all day long plus doing homework at night, I don’t really have time to join every single club that as a Mormon I should probably “reach out” to. And frankly, I didn’t go to grad school to only join religious organizations, so it’s about deciding which things I’m more interested in and joining those groups.
November 2, 2009 at 4:43 pm
At the law school I attended years ago, no group could discriminate. That is, if a Mormon wanted to join the St. Thomas More society, she couldn’t be kept out. Ditto an evangelical joining the J. Reuben Clark Society, etc. I would suspect that, in general, schools wouldn’t permit discrimination in official school organizations.
November 2, 2009 at 4:56 pm
#16: I never have quantitative data for blog posts! But, this post was motivated by the fact that I have recently had many opportunities to interact with Evangelicals who are very nice and interested in Mormonism. However, I’ve been troubled by some of the discussion of Evangelicals on Mormon blogs. There seems to often be an assumption that Evangelicals dislike us. Now, surely some do. But others don’t. And it seems a shame to forego opportunities to meet them. It creates cycles of prejudice.
November 2, 2009 at 5:34 pm
To add: The place where I currently attend school has a lot more interaction with other Christian groups than I have had at previous schools, and it sets a positive tone. I find myself wondering why I never thought that I could reach out to other Christians before.
November 2, 2009 at 6:20 pm
I taught high school in southern Alabama. I co-hosted the Fellowship of Christina Students with a Baptist coach.
Of course, it helped tremendously that the longest tenured, most respected teacher on campus was the Stake President. One of my Catholic students said that the top three on his hero list were God, the Pope and this teacher – and not necessarily in that order.
Other than that experience, my interactions have led me to believe that (at least outside the Intermountain corridor)Mormons generally will work with evangelical Christians MUCH more readily and happily than vice-versa. I’ve never been part of an organized effort where Mormons refused to work with other Christians because of their religious beliefs, but I’ve seen multiple instances where Mormons were rejected by others strictly because of their religious beliefs.
November 2, 2009 at 10:12 pm
As a student at the University of Illinois, I was a member of the LDSSA, the Fellowship of Christian Teachers, and regularly hung out with the Brothers And Sisters In Christ (BASIC) student ministry. (I don’t know what one had to do to actually “join” BASIC, but I did help them pass out hot chocolate and pop tarts on the Quad and went to a lot of their activities.) I’m also a supporter of the Greek InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
While no longer a student, but still living in Champaign, I continue to associate with these friends of mine. Members of the church in the area are involved in a community-wide interfaith council that hosts Q&A forums, service projects, and other worthwhile activities.
I’m sure there are places where LDS folks would be kicked out of (or barred access to joining) non-LDS religious groups, but I’m lucky to not live in one of those places. I think it really all depends on where you are.
November 3, 2009 at 9:04 am
I forgot to mention that one of the most active members of our JRCLS chapter in law school was a devoted catholic, while we also had a Lutheran and a couple of less-active members of the (LDS) church who frequently participated in a positive way. I thought we had some good things going. This was at a T-20 law school in the Midwest.
November 3, 2009 at 9:19 am
Also, for some reason this thread reminds me of my experiences of walking into a Christian bookstore and looking at the books on Mormonism. It always blows my mind that the titles are invariably from the likes of Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Richard Abanes, and even Ed Decker. They are all from the “countercult.” They have the same type of “why this religion is wrong” books on Islam and Buddhism. I once tried to talk to the manager of one of the bookstores to ask why they chose these books and to give some suggestions of some others (like, say, Bushman’s _Mormonism: A Very Short Introduction_ or the Dummies/Idiot’s Guide introductions). While I tried to do this in a very non-confrontational way, the manager became very upset and basically kicked me out of the store. Has anyone had any successful experiences discussing this issue with the manager/receiver of a Christian bookstore?
The countercult and most Evangelical ministers’/Christian bookstores’ love affair with them will always be a mystery to me.
November 4, 2009 at 9:30 am
The receptiveness (receptivity?) of evangelical Christians for Mormon participation seems to vary from region to region. The BSU on the University of Oklahoma campus where I served as a missionary could only be described as hostile while I was there, while Christian groups in Washington thought it was positively jolly that some of us Mormon friends wanted to visit a fellowship meeting.
After hearing horror stories from both sides (Evangelicals reaching out to Mormons and being rebuffed and vice versa), it seems the fault lies in both groups as far as breeding suspicion and sometimes outright anger toward each other.