Comments on: Hate Crimes

By: Scott B.

Scott B. — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:58:29 +0000

That’s not enough, Ben. You have to hate criminals, too.

By: Ben Pratt

Ben Pratt — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:50:01 +0000

Hate crimes? Of course I hate crimes!

By: Dan Weston

Dan Weston — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:20:19 +0000

bbell,

Are you sure it’s the data you’re questioning? You gang violence comment suggests that you oppose the concept of a “hate crime” itself.

Perhaps the kernel of what’s bothering you is the inherent duplicity of the definition. A hate crime is a legal fiction created for an extralegal need, and it bothers you that the “extralegal” part is not Constitutional. It seems the Justices have not agreed with you.

Specifically, a hate crime is two crimes: one against a person (your run-of-the-mill legal crime), the other against a protected class (for which the victim stands in as proxy). The foundational problem is that criminal law does not represent an unincorporated group of people as a legal entity. At best we have class-action lawsuits, that are really a form of binding arbitration (i.e. civil, NOT criminal law!) It prop up the legality of “life and limb” only with trial by jury, the sentence is pronounced on the first individual crime, with “extenuation circumstances” (but of a separate crime!) Constitutionalists cringe, but we have tolerated this well-intentioned sleight-of-hand fairly well.

The standing of a subset of Americans to be treated as a single entity in court was unprecedented, and sits on ground no more sturdy than Roe v. Wade, yet our Constitution has evolved to embrace it. Attempts to readdress the issue now seem quixotic.

And I think that is perhaps what is really chapping your A#$@: one group really is favored over another.

By: bbell

bbell — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:30:59 +0000

Mike,

That is not my argument.

I am questioning the data.

Also if you check the links above and look at the report (and if you believe it. A big stretch gee I wonder what political leanings the LA County Commisson on Human rights members have. How do they get their funding anyway? Reporting that hate crimes are up?) most of the racial violence in LA County is Black/Hispanic gang violence on each other. Not random look there is a (insert whomever here) lets kick his A#$@

By: Zoe Brain

Zoe Brain — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:55:22 +0000

Note that until the recent federal hate-crime legislation was enacted, the FBI was not permitted to collect data about trans people.

5 gays were murdered for being gay – but 19 trans people were murdered for being trans. No christians of any denomination, mormons included, were murdered for their religious belief.

By: Brad H

Brad H — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:04:36 +0000

The problem still remains though that for hate type crimes, the most prominent victims are black. We Mormons like to think we get the persecution from everybody but it’s nothing like having different colored skin.
I have one current student who is black and tonight was the fall concert. While walking up through the concert hall, I noticed an entire family with this same student’s eyes and a girl with the same corn row design. I stopped and introduced myself saying “hey, you must be the …….s”.
My student tells me that she lives down in Genesee (south east Seattle) and this is a pretty chi chi school. She’s on a special scholarship and is a freshman to boot. The family seemed a little uncomfortable as the other families of color are TV personalities and sports stars, if you catch my drift.
I just hope that in my continuing conversation with them that they felt more and more comfortable about where they are sending their daughter.
Anyway, to those who think we are still fighting the polygamy wars or that some militia is coming up I-15 to settle a score: get over yourselves. We ain’t got nothin’ compared to the stain of slavery.
To paraphrase the very insightful words of perhaps the most poorly chosen Secretary of State, Condelezza Rice: “this country has a birth defect when it comes to race”

By: MikeInWeHo

MikeInWeHo — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:28:47 +0000

re: 48
Yeah, I agree with that. The numbers are suspect. But does that mean we deny the problem exists and do nothing?

By: Steve G.

Steve G. — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:47:54 +0000

Wasn’t there a Missionary shot in Virgina a couple of years ago? Was that classified as a hate crime?

By: bbell

bbell — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:47:53 +0000

I seriously doubt data regarding hate crimes. Interest groups use “hate” crimes as fodder for increased funding and attention for their particular causes and communities putting in my view the collection of data on these types of crimes in doubt.

I do not doubt that bias motivated attacks occur I just do not trust the data. In addiion more liberal jurisdictions tend to more easily define hate crimes and more conservative jurisdictions tend to downplay them due to political biases.

On top of this there are lots of hoaxes. Esp on college campuses

By: Steven B

Steven B — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:04:53 +0000

One of the links provided by Brad (#45) led me to the actual report (pdf) for 2008 hate crimes in Los Angeles County: http://humanrelations.co.la.ca.us/hatecrime/hatecrimereport.htm

Hate crimes in this report consist of both violent and non-violent crimes, ranging from intimidation to murder. Of interest to this thread, page 12 of the report indicates that in LA County there were 109 such hate crimes committed against gay males, whereas only one crime reported against Mormons.

Regarding the connection to Prop 8 specifically, Page 14 states: “The public debate around Prop 8 triggered 9 anti-lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender (LGBT) crimes. 5 of these crimes were acts of vandalism in which opponents of Prop 8 had their property targeted by homophobic (and in 1 case, anti-black) graffiti. In addition, there were 4 violent crimes.”