Comments for By Common Consent, a Mormon Blog

Comment on ‘Lest we run too far’: Baptism for the Dead and the Holocaust by Jeremy Jensen

Jeremy Jensen — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 06:27:04 +0000

89
I think some Jews do find it extremely disrespectful that we believe that Jews will not be exalted because they are not LDS, and the fact that we believe proxy baptisms are required for non-LDS people to have a chance at exaltation. I think their outrage, in many cases, is based on a misunderstanding of our doctrine. Many of those that object to baptism for the dead think that we consider someone Mormon after their work has been done in the temple. I read comment after comment about “forced conversion” on the internet. I think if these people understood that our proxy work is done only to give these people the opportunity to choose whether to accept the gospel, many of them would be feel far less offended.

Comment on To all the stupid people by ClairB

ClairB — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 05:28:44 +0000

J., both this “stupid people” thread and the Woodward article explore the question of speaking evil of the Lord’s anointed.

Comment on Two events in Seattle, February 26-27, Masonry and death conquest by Carson

Carson — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 05:03:48 +0000

thanks, that makes sense

Comment on Two events in Seattle, February 26-27, Masonry and death conquest by J. Stapley

J. Stapley — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 04:47:29 +0000

Carson, the first is her name, the second is her email addy.

Comment on ‘Lest we run too far’: Baptism for the Dead and the Holocaust by Frank Pellett

Frank Pellett — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 04:33:15 +0000

93 – third party –
It’s pretty theoretical, since if I were waiting for someone to do proxy work for me, I’d both be dead and in whatever afterlife there is, meaning I’d know that I need the ordinances or already decided I don’t want them. It wouldn’t make me feel better to know someone baptized me using my number, rather than my name if I didn’t want the ordinance at all, and if I did, being nothing but a number would be dehumanizing.

I absolutely agree that we should not be doing work for people outside of our own families. When I go this weekend to do some temple work, I will be taking the names of men I have researched and come to know, at least lightly. They are not items on an assembly line, to be done and discarded, but living, non-breathing, people who continue to have their own lives, hopes, and dreams.

Comment on Two events in Seattle, February 26-27, Masonry and death conquest by Carson

Carson — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 04:26:13 +0000

Why the two at’s in Molly’s email. I am confused, thanks

Comment on ‘Lest we run too far’: Baptism for the Dead and the Holocaust by Third party

Third party — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 03:58:27 +0000

“Frank Pellett:
For the idea of making proxies “general” or by number – If I were wanting someone to do work for me, I think I’d appreciate it more if people actually knew my name. These are real people, not just numbers or something to be checked off a list. ”

That’s very understandable, but as a non-Mormon, I would feel quite the opposite. It would trouble me much more to find someone was using my name than assigning me a number.

I’m also not Jewish and quite familiar with the theological implications of baptism for the dead–and it still makes me terribly uncomfortable. I do think the Jewish people have a particular claim to offense given the historical efforts to strip them of cultural identity, but I expect most people’s resistance is much simpler. It’s just unsettling for someone to be using your name or relative’s name, without their consent, in a religious ceremony. The “ramificiations” have nothing to do with it. I wouldn’t want to find out someone is using the names of people in my family in that way. I think this post is a rather good parellel:http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/09/20/in-which-i-suddenly-understand/

Comment on To all the stupid people by Chris H.

Chris H. — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 03:43:22 +0000

I personally prefer a medley of Prozac and Diet Coke…and blogging.

Comment on To all the stupid people by Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 03:25:58 +0000

There’s no question that I need therapy.

Comment on To all the stupid people by Chris H.

Chris H. — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 03:05:16 +0000

Steve, maybe you should talk to a therapist about these self-esteem issues that H_Nu has pointed. I hear that John Dehlin specializes in dealing with Mormons. You might also consider joining a Mormon Stories Support Group.