The family altar

I’ve never seen them, but (for what it’s worth) I’ve been told that the prayer circle rooms are still there on the old buildings. I haven’t the faintest idea what they’d be used for besides a closet for the scouts or something.

Fundies tend to make a big deal of the official dropping of extra-temple prayer circles in 1978. They see it as a sign of apostasy (as opposed to a sign of continuing revelation…)

Edward Kimball’s latest biography of Spencer W. Kimball mentions the halting of prayer circles outside of the temple.

Thanks for the Brigham Young quote about mentally repeating the words.

Thanks, J. Stapley. Did the participants wear regular clothes, or temple clothes?

What is wrong with an altar for family prayer? Ultimately it is a symbolic piece of furniture with the very practical use of being a place for family members to rest their hands during prayer.

As long as we do not act like they have some metaphysical power, sounds like a pretty good idea to me, although I would probably refrain from calling it an altar in mixed company.

The current alternative is everyone ends up facing away from eachother, typically facing the couch and the walls, or the darkness underneath a kitchen table. An “altar” would be much better. We would not exactly be burning offerings on it.

It isn’t that the idea is a bad one, I just think praying around family alters would make the LDS church look even more cultish. I can just see the SNL skit now…

I have some Hindu friends that have an altar in a closet in their apartment. It’s really not as weird as it sounds. They are devoted to their god just as we are to ours. They found a way to worship when they are far from their religous center (and they are pretty far.)
I love the idea of praying in a circle at home. We’d need a few more people though, now it’s just a triangle with a little baby in the middle. =)

A common thing these days is for a family to have a special “temple room” in their homes. These are often decorated white with pictures of the Savior, prophets and biblical scenes adorning the walls. The room is dedicated to study, prayer and formal family meetings. For some reason I feel uncomfortable when I see such a room. (I do not feel uncomfortable in the temple.). If the room includes an altar, by what authority is it dedicated. Would an altar or “white room” create a feeling of mimicry rather than the true sacred nature that can be a home.. Do we need to be in a white room to feel the spirit or study or pray? The Savior’s great intercessory prayer took place in a garden. Where was Enos’? Need I paint my closet white?

jns, I wouldn’t have much problem with an altar–we have an established tradition of altars, though lately lapsed. On the other hand, your point about the efficacy of prayers being independent of place is well taken. Family altars do seem extraneous. Perhaps that’s why we dropped the tradition in the first place?

The white room thing is downright creepy. And besides, it seems to me that the room the family spends the most social time in as a group, be it kitchen or family room, is the best place for family prayers and religious activities. Such a location helps reinforce the centrality of our religious practice to our family life.

I honestly don’t know what I would find wierder: an altar in someone’s living room or their own personal celestial room. I haven’t seen that trend personally, but it is an interesting idea.

As to why altars at all, well, I think that goes back to the begining of the post. There are types of rituals that we are taught require them, some forms of prayer included. That said, I think that many people (myself included) could get some benifit out of a more formal approach to prayer.

A member of my family has a “prayer square” in the family room—a big upholstered ottoman where the family kneel for family prayers. It’s also used for cartoon-watching and snack-spilling and story-reading, of course.

This is terrific, J. I had never heard of family altars before.

My father used to talk about extra-temple prayer circles. I know they did them overseas when he was in the service.

I have a family altar in the middle of my living room, yes it looks similar to a Temple altar, and yes I refer to it as the altar even in mixed company. It often excited inquiry as to our religion which I see as a good missionary opportunity. We are actually willing to build altars like this for others and I have a photo of ours up on http://store.lds-light.net

J. Stapley: I’m almost curious if your post was inspired by seeing my altar, since I had only just posted about mine a day or so ago? :)

J. Stapley,

Well, it was great to hear what you had to say on the subject. I’ve read a little on the subject here and there in the past, and if I find time I may pull up some of those sources and add to your discussion here. I do want to point out something: As far as I know, it has never been forbidden to HAVE a family altar in the home. There is nothing to me that indicates that this practice being “stopped” was intentional, but rather that it drifted into obscurity. And also, if someone chose to practice the True Order of Prayer (Prayer Circle) at such an Altar, I can think of no doctrinal or historical reason why they would not be fully entitled to do so — the letter in 1978 was specifically stopping Stake special prayer circles because there wasn’t opportunity enough for everyone to participate in them and it was felt to be unfair, but by a natural interpretation of the Endowment ceremony it seems to be teaching people specifically to pray and how to pray for a reason, and I can see someone walk away from that with the distinct impression that such is the thing to do, and the thing the Lord is instructing them to do. After all, the full quantity of information used in the Prayer Circle itself is not required at the vail, so it must be for use during this life, not after.

Btw, do you like the design of my family altar? Also, I forgot to mention, that in addition to family prayer, I use it to rehearse parts for the degrees of Freemasonry with my Masonic brethren as well, when one of them comes over to study with me. Quite convenient.

It might just be coincidental, but I’m aware of a few LDS families & there are probably many, who conduct their family prayer while kneeling around one of the beds, which is a little bigger but otherwise about the same size and shape as an altar.

I’m inclined to read most of the quotes in the original post as metaphorical. Remember, that camp meetings often had “altar call,” even when conducted in a tent or somewhere that didn’t have an actual physical “thing” there at the front. This language about the “family altar” would be common in Victorian America, including 19th/early 20th century Mormonism, and would be of a piece with other similar domestic devotional practices.

Aside, my parents had traveled throughout the Middle East in the 1960s and had, instead, adopted a prayer rug similar to those used in Muslim prayers and bought at one of the outdoor markets on their travels. Though we weren’t fussy about the 5 times a day or which way we were facing, we used it as a prayer gathering spot for the family. As a kid I thought this was extremely exotic.

I remember hearing rumors many years ago about LDS families who had altars in their homes. Of course, the folks that shared this info with me were the types who were into getting one’s calling and election made sure and receivings one’s second endowment and what-not. Being much younger and naive at the time I took the “altar in the home” (with the mental image of it being sequestered in a back room) as a sign of being in touch with “higher” laws or what-have-you. Though I was young and gullible I should say in my own defense that this info came to me without any reference to 19th century mormon culture. Little wonder it had the galling influence of causing me to believe that I was on the wrong side of the gospel “tracks” as it were.

Jerks.

re DKL # 27, from my observation, DP ususally shows up on Bloggernacle threads in which he is being bashed. It seems natural to me that he would be interested in defending his name and work.

Cool post, J. Awesome.

I actually have a book written anonymously called Further Light and Knowledge in which Brigham Young gives details on how to build one’s own altar for use at home… pretty cool stuff. It can be purchased at Benchmark Book in SLC. Ask for Anne.

Jeff, thanks for your thoughts, I understand what you are saying, but I’m afraid you are pretty off the mark.

He is a fanatic. He takes basic principles of the gospel and twists them into things they are not. He claims to be interested in finding a close connection to God and yet he is mean spirited, without compassion, and unforgiving. He uses his gospel ideas to form divisions and separations between himself and others. He is usually judging in very offensive ways. He would not participate in giving my 11 year old niece a blessing because he’d heard her say a bad word the week before.

When another SIL was diagnosed with a debilitating chemical imbalance, he gave her a 53 page paper he’d written up, complete with scriptural quotations, about how if she would repent of her sins, she wouldn’t need the medication they’d given her to balance her brain chemistry because she would be cured, and he continued to tell her for the next year that she needed to repent of all of the dark sin that was causing her problems.

We’ve been warned not to have gospel hobbies, and from what I’ve experienced over the last 10 years, he’s the worst kind of gospel hobbiest. The prayer room and the year of consecration (at the expense of his parents, who supported his family that year, which resulted in his parents going bankrupt) are just examples.

A few quotes that say it better than I did:

Quentin Cook, Ensign: “Today there is a tendency among some of us to “look beyond the mark” rather than to maintain a testimony of gospel basics. We do this when we substitute the philosophies of men for gospel truths, engage in gospel extremism, seek heroic gestures at the expense of daily consecration, or elevate rules over doctrine. Avoiding these behaviors will help us avoid the theological blindness and stumbling that Jacob described.”

“Another sign of spiritual immaturity and sometimes apostasy is when one focuses on certain gospel principles or pursues “gospel hobbies” with excess zeal. Almost any virtue taken to excess can become a vice.”

“Certain members have wanted to add substantially to various doctrines. An example might be when one advocates additions to the Word of Wisdom that are not authorized by the Brethren and proselytes others to adopt these interpretations. If we turn a health law or any other principle into a form of religious fanaticism, we are looking beyond the mark.”

“Some who are not authorized want to speak for the Brethren and imply that their message contains the “meat” the Brethren would teach if they were not constrained to teach only the “milk.” Others want to counsel the Brethren and are critical of all teachings that do not comply with their version of what should be taught.”

Dallin Oaks said “Another strength Satan can exploit is a strong desire to understand everything about every principle of the gospel. How could that possibly work to our detriment? Experience teaches that if this desire is not disciplined, it can cause some to pursue their searchings beyond the fringes of orthodoxy, seeking answers to obscure mysteries rather than seeking a firmer understanding and a better practice of the basic principles of the gospel.”

Sorry, that was way too long.

BTW, here’s something that purports to be a scanned image of the actual letter sent out by Kimball putting an end to prayer circles.

Elsewhere on the site is the text of the purported letter:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Office of the First Presidency
Salt Lake City, Utah

May 3, 1978

TO ALL STAKE PRESIDENTS AND BISHOPS:

Over the years special permission has been given from time to time for special prayer circles to be held either in the temples of the Church or in special rooms designated for that purpose in stake, ward, or other buildings.

Because of the increasing number of requests for such prayer circles, viewed in light of the rapid growth of the Church, and because of the complications that holding prayer circles in temples on Sunday have created and their tendency to take the participants away from their families and their other Church responsibilities, the Council of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve has decided that all such prayer circles, whether held in the temples or outside the temples, be discontinued immediately.

However, recognizing the value of these prayer circles in developing spirituality, commitment, and unity among those participating in them, we suggest that in lieu of such prayer circles, stake leaders may wish to consider the following: (1) that periodically stake leaders and their wives attend a temple session together in connection with which arrangements be made with the temple presidency for the prayer circle held during the endowment session to be composed of several stake leaders and their wives; and 2) that periodically stake leaders and their companions be called together in a special meeting where opportunity be given to those present to express themselves by way of testimony or exhortation.

Sincerely yours,

Spencer W. Kimball

N. Eldon Tanner

M.G. Romney

The First Presidency

Antonio, you raise a very important ambivalence that I have felt during this conversation and I very much appreciate both of your comments. At once, I am very much moved by the dedication of these early saints. The idea that they brought their families together to formally supplicate our Lord is beautiful. I find that I want to recapture a bit of that in my family.

…but, seeing a picture of Jeff’s altar makes me very uncomfortable. Perhaps because it is so anachronistic. Perhaps because I associate similar activities with fundies.

I think that there is a certain demographic that does tend to seek after the “mysteries” in such a way that isolates them from the average Mormon. Sue has a sad example of this in her own family. I do believe that we can recapture the spirit of our progenitors in a way that isn’t off-putting or anachronistic.

I thought the link for the alter was a joke. He also has listed a Bible, Rock, and hat.

Nah,

Did’nt you get the memo from Jeff Day? You can find a seerstone on the internet.

A rant in defense:

It is fascinating to me that so many readers here have not heard of the family altar, prayer circles conducted in special meeting house meeting rooms, and rooms set apart in homes. While they aren’t widely talked of, and they are some what buried, but certainly do come up in deep LDS reading now and then as we STUDY.

Now, on the topic of Celestial Rooms:
We have a Stake Presidency member that has a celestial styled room in his home. It has the white furniture, carpet, moulding, scripture table – the whole bit. Actually I think we have two Stake Pres. members that do this, but I haven’t felt the need to confirmed it as it’s really not uncommon to design a formal scripture room in the C-room style in these parts.

Why? With the abundance of new home building especially in the western US in the past 10 years, many Saints are taking time to design their new and existing home to accommodate the unique needs of the Mormon family, and the next Mormon family to move into the house, and the next, and so on.

I can see where such appointments appear to be self serving for the mainstream Mormon not familiar with these trends. I can see where these accommodations might be talked of as cultish for the Mormon that appears a bit more radical or peculiar. But think of it this way – we designate special areas for the provident/temporal living we are counseled to follow (out of simplicity, we have special bookshelves for church lit, we have food storage closets, shelves in the garage for camping/72 hour “stuff”, kitchen appliances for emergency use, 55 gallon water jugs, etc.). We don’t think twice about including these temporal items in our home design.

We are also counseled to include spiritual items prominently in our homes – it ALL starts at HOME. And our home is a holy place – we stand in holy places. We are counseled and often have the obligatory FP, LC, and pictures of Christ, Joseph Smith and the current prophet prominently displayed. True, these can be as simple as a screen saver or refrigerator taped picture – but our society affords us the possibility of appreciating these items as works of art too. The problem is when this art becomes an idol – meaning the idol worship of temporal objects – as in “Jane has one, we should too” or, “I just have to have the original white porcelain sculpture of the First Vision with the artist signature”. Places like Deseret lead those tempted, to think that simple displays are not enough. The non-provident overspender or the person with a tendency to value greed, might be easily tempted into making a purchase to beautify their home by using the objects as idolotry.

You probably won’t find “Deseret Art” in the humble spirit filled Tonga home necessarily. Instead you may find carefully selected pictures from the Ensign in a scrapbook on a table. A Saint from Guatemala might marvel at a Salt Lake home and think it is overly appointed. When they get to know the owner, they will hopefully find that that the owner does not take excessive pride (a form of idol worship) in having and displaying such art. It’s all relevant and cannot be generalize all, to the level of sinful idolotry. Afterall, many of us may ponder and ask, “What might our Celestial home include? What could a celestial home be like and how should I move for that here on earth?”

So, we have rooms for our temporal “stuff”. We have access to temples that are finely appointed. It’s not the appointments that bring in the spirit – it’s the fact that they are formal appointments that help set the tone. Increasingly, people are making their homes a holy place as well – mixing the temporal and spirtual. Truthfully, that is where we are to start – by making our home a holy place. Soem will jump and say, “Aha, it’s we aren’t suppose to take the literal interpretation!” but the literal interpretation will vary greatly from the idol interpretation with spiritual guidance.

A home is a sanctuary. It can become a place of idol worship as easily as a place of spiritual learning. Just as we can make a media room and find it take over our lives as we veg out to movies, music and downloading, we can instead prioritize what we worship – and designate a room for that activitiy. The spiritual room often has has formal appointments that set the tone for that purpose, just as the media room is designed with slouch furniture that is easy to clean.

The people that I know that have celestial styled room in their home, do not have a celestial room – and they would never say that they do. Instead, they have a room in the STYLE of a celestial room.

They understand that people learn by their senses. They play upon that knowledge and go to sources (Celestial room designs) to invite in that same idea into their home. Their design included the senses: seeing (scriptures and pictures displayed, a soothing monochromatic palette of color punctuated by monocromatic touches), hearing (silence, or hymns in the background), feeling (sitting on comfortable furniture that commands formality – lighter color palettes are more formal which is how we are when we address HF and Christ – the tone is different in a white room, than a room with dark leather furniture), smelling (fresh flowers, candles, not stale food in the couch cushions), and tasting (serving ice water for example). The tone for visiting and home teaching, receiving church news and visitors is immediately set in such a room.

Actually, a popular rennovation in our neighborhood is to wall off your living area for a separate “special” room – much like an old fashioned parlor. Knowing trends around here, these rooms will probably evolve into formal “Celestial” styled rooms down the road by current homeowners, or immediately by the next homeowner.

These rooms are, and will continue to rise in popularity among LDS. Just as older “Mormon” homes around here are joked about because they are characterized by having a large pantry with shelves for food storage (which was an excessive appointment 20 years ago…) modern homes are being designed by or for “Mormons” with contemporary appointments that may appear excessive in the context of what we have today.

Call it “New Mormon Design” – whatever, it’s a change with the times, and it’s being done. Many of us are moving away from the traps of television – and are moving toward having places in our homes for “odd” Mormon activities: family scripture study and lesson/talk preparation in a computer room; kitchens that accommodate our unique view of food storage and movement toward storing and living foods closer to the heart of the WoW; storage areas that protect stores of food, clothing, and emergency amenities; and rooms set apart specifically for exclusive church “business”. New home building couples now actually consider and include the following options (and we have homes in our neighborhood with some or all of the below choices considered and accommodated in home building):

~ special closets near an exit door to house 72 hour kits, a fire proof safe for documents and CDs holding photos and documents – ready to go

~ humidity, heat/AC cooled food storage closets (often tucked inside garages)

~ side yard water storage and collection areas; pools with seal tight pool covers

~ carpet, paint furniture, art and molding selections for “Celestial” styled rooms

~ large kitchen islands and island storage for emergency canning (for quickly adding meats, fruits and veggies that could spoil in a fridge or freezer in a power outage); extra counter edging to accomodate hand crank grinders; generators; and other “survival equipment” that can be stored conveniently but still out of sight

~ large kitchen tables with book shelf area for scripture study, homework, games and entertaining

~ a separate shower, mini-stack washer and dryer and changing area outside the home (built in the garage again – that 4th car garage comes in handy…). This is radical to me – and talked of as necessary in case of bird flu. It’s built as an area that can be used to try to decontaminate husbands coming home from work and visitors you’d like to see face to face. This area also has a freezer to freeze germs on mail and packages prior to their entrance into the home.

~ cellars (built in back yards, or off of basements

~ extra rooms with computer hook up that can quickly accommodate a planned or “emergency” home business (hair, physical therapy, child care, consulting, net based business, law, transcription, nurse case management, education via web, and so on). This is a popular home building option for families that foresee the bread winner’s company moving toward more employees working from home, and for people that want to give up the practice but can still consult from home (these jobs are virutally any job that can be outsourced – radiology review, peri-natal ultrasound reading, surgical consultation via web link, software design, and so on).

Crazy? For those that this is a new concept and cannot get past an initial judgement of idolotry – yes.

For many others, it’s part of an evolution toward a more meaningful spirtual life that has temporal and provident living counsel taken care of through well planned home design.

Eve (#40) said: “Part of my concern with Jeff’s altar is the price tag, which strikes me as very steep for most Mormon families in the U.S., let alone worldwide. Even if someone really feels the need to have an altar, I don’t see why he or she couldn’t create or acquire it much more inexpensively.”

I would like to explain the construction of my Altar a bit. My own Altar is the result of a Family Home Evening project. We didn’t realize the project would take us an entire month worth of spare time to complete. I am not a carpenter or furniture builder. I have never worked with wood tools before. This was a very difficult task for my wife and I to undertake. The reason the price tag is so steep is twofold: 1) If we made one for someone else, we would have to make it up to a higher standard of quality. If you could see ours close up, you would see imperfections and minor problems with how it was built. If someone buys one from me, I would design it with extreme care so that it is beautiful for them and they have no reason to complain about it. 2) It took an entire month of spare time to build. This means that if I intend to do a better job, I will probably have to take three weeks off of work to get the job done properly, not to mention traveling to stores and purchasing fine materials to make a great product. I won’t sell something shabby. If people are interested in making their own: Go for it. To be honest, my own is built with a plethora of old 2×4’s and some thin rectangular boards that I purchased at a yard sale for a few dollars. The kneeling pads are the most expensive part: 2 or 3 inch foam purchased at the fabric store, upholstered with some nice fabric, and bordered with decorative golden rope. The front panel is fitted with an unfinished foot/pedal area from an old piano that we finished carving, sanded up, and cut down to fit. The panel is removable making the inside like a chest, which also has a padded surface matching the kneelers, bordered in rope. Because of the 2×4’s, my Altar weighs about a tonne, something I will try not to duplicate. The back and side kneelers are detachable, so that the altar can also be placed against a wall, if desired. If I build one for someone else, the front will need to be a much simpler design unless we can look around and find something similar to those piano fish carvings, or if we spend an enormous amount of effort reproducing it, by carving it by hand.

All of this, to me, is surely worth $2500 to compensate for the time I will have to be away from my usual vocation to do this, and still make enough money for it to be worth the manual labor. If you go to http://heavenlywood.com and look at “Communion Table #1072”, the closest item I can find, it is priced at $4325. #424 altar, although not of the Masonic style, is probably more comparable as far as size goes, and it is $2725. This leads me to believe my pricing is more or less standard for such a piece of furniture, however, I must admit, their woodworking skills are superior to my own.

The whole Christian world considers LDS Temples “Cultish”, so I don’t see any reason anyone would not think a family altar is equally “cultish” … this does not mean it is bad, it only means that people are unaccustomed to it. If you want to try easing into the idea, you might set up a couple of food storage crates with a foam pad on top and a nice tablecloth thrown over them, keep your scriptures there, and use it as a place to pray. You will soon realize that it isn’t such a bad thing to have a dedicated place for this type of activity. Also, the presence of the altar will remind you to pray (every time you trip over it), and for someone busy with work and other things, like myself, having a reminder to pray is important to me, because I don’t do it often enough otherwise.

My home teachers found it to be interesting. They were sort of edgy about it the first time they visited, but after that they realized it is just part of who we are, and they are ok with praying around it, as well as other guests that come to my home (some not even Mormons). One lady that visited us said it was remarkable, that she thinks the Bible basically tells us to have something like that, but that she had never seen anyone before that had set apart such a place. This from a lady so superstitious, that she wouldn’t even use a computer mouse because it feels too much like a Ouija board to her, she was comfortable with the Altar, as far as I could tell.

OK,

maybe Jeff Day was not kidding. Yikes.

I am also familiar with the TOOP in private homes leading to apostacy trends on the Wasatch front. Probably why in 1978 the Bretheren tried to prevent the practice.

Wow Jeff, you must spice up the Elder’s Quorum.

I am all for altar-like furniture, as long as the style is sufficently subdued, but I think the TOOP being performed outside of temples is a really bad idea, for a wide variety of reasons.

Steve, I’m distressed by it as well.

Conversations about the doctrinal justification or lack thereof for fundamentalism also seem out of place here.

Taryn, I think you’re right on — anachronisms like the altar too often become excuses for us to talk lightly about things that are sacred, or conversely, to take oddities as sacred things. A fine line we’re walking here.

Jeff, this isn’t an issue of popularity, nor of shunning. The issue here is respect for community norms as concerns the sacred nature of our temple practices, especially how and when we speak of them.

Jeff, I sense that your desires are good. My take on this is that we need to look at history through the lens of current doctrine and practice. There is nothing of this sort even remotely taught by our leaders. That should have more consideration than any historical practice, as interesting as that history may be to some.

Also, we are encouraged to stay in the mainstream — not in a “follow the crowd downhill” kind of a way, but in a “follow the prophets” kind of a way. With that in mind, I wonder about this potential need you feel to “stand up” to fellow members (comparing it to your need to stand up for your decision to join the Church). I see the two as very different situations. Kudos to you for following your heart to join the Church, but I’m not sure you need to “stand up” to other members. After all, we are supposed to be unifed to some rather significant degree on how we practice our religion, are we not? Please consider and remember that a good chunk of us had never heard of family altars before this post (and that is ok; we don’t need to know about them today or we would have heard about them from our leaders!). With that in mind, it shouldn’t come as any surprise that you have gotten some raised eyebrows. :)

I think this from Elder Oaks might be relevant:

“Following the prophet is a great strength, but it needs to be consistent and current, lest it lead to the spiritual downfall that comes from rejecting continuous revelation. Under that principle, the most important difference between dead prophets and living ones is that those who are dead are not here to receive and declare the Lord’s latest words to his people. If they were, there would be no differences among the messages of the prophets.”
Dallin H. Oaks, “Our Strengths Can Become Our Downfall,” Ensign, Oct. 1994, 11

You said the fact that the use of family altars was prevalent in historical teaching and practice is worth special consideration. What Elder Oaks’ quote suggests to me is that “consistent and current” teaching and practice is worth a lot more consideration. And current teaching doesn’t even put this on the radar screen. It is clear you value your membership and the temple and such. That’s commendable. But I’m always concerned when someone comes up with something that is clearly not taught by our current leaders, even if it shows up in our history. In my mind, the only real way to know what of our past we should embrace now is to look to our current leaders. I see no other way to know with any degree of certainty if we are on spiritually-sound ground.

With concern,
A sister

Well, Mark, you’re mistaken, both as to “considerable precedent” (???) and your use of scripture. The use of Melchizedek’s name isn’t an acronym.

We have a nice, more formal living room. It certainly wouldn’t be mistaken for a celestial room, but it is nice, and is generally off limits except for family home evening and visitors. The real advantage of having such a room is practical. When people come to visit, this room is generally clean, so we can invite the visitors in there and not have to let them see the crayon-scribbled, toy-strewn rest of the house. I had doubted the utility or necessity of such a room, but my wife was vindicated recently. We had our fourth child a few months ago, and taking care of baby has decreased the amount of time my wife can spend chasing behind the other three to pick up after them. The Relief Society came to visit and she invited them to the living room. They commented on how clean our house looks. She grinned and told them that if they could see the rest of the house they wouldn’t be so complimentary.

Mark, I find that list of acronyms offensive and unfortunate. Some of them strike me as blasphemous. I haven’t seen most of them here or at other blogs I frequent, but they should be avoided. Hebrew words aren’t acronyms either; they elide certain sounds. Apples and oranges, as is the use of Melchizedek. If you truly don’t see the difference between acronymic usage and substitutive representational wording, I can recommend some language textbooks.

Feel free to use your acronyms elsewhere.

Would someone let me in on what TOoP is?

Thanks

Mark,

I think the simple rule of thumb is: Don’t tick off the people who run the blog you are commenting on with your acronymns.

You are right that acronymns are often used in online theological/church discussions — mostly for convenience. RS, GA, SS (sunday school), PEC, SP (stake president), KFD (King Follet Discourse) and many more are all used for brevity. But surely you can see why creating acronymns for titles like “Most High God” would be offensive to some people can’t you? The same goes for acronyms for sacred rites I think. I like Stapley’s solution in this case.

Sorry, I meant Steve Evans.

Razorfish —

I had a similar thought during the months following 9/11, when I attended several temple of the sessions for the primary purpose of strengthening myself spiritually and drawing closer to God. To my disappointment, the prayers in the temple sessions that I attended were entirely rote, with no reference to the calamity that had just arisen in our beautiful land, or the suffering of our neighbors.***

I thought to myself, if the true order of prayer is really found in the Temple, and if God somehow responds more purely to those prayers, then we have squandered the opportunity to bless others by failing to pray earnestly for the things that matter most.

(Why is it that Latter-Day Saints so consistently ignore current events in our worship services. It is as if we have created a bubble for ourselves, and don’t want the unpleasantries of real life to invade our tranquil state . . . but I digress . . . )

“It occurred to me at that time that if the true order of prayer is really found in the Temple, and if God somehow responds more deeply to those prayers, then Latter-Day Saints have squandered the opportunity to bless others by failing to pray earnestly for the things that matter most. Moreover, if prayer really makes a difference, shouldn’t we be praying earnestly about some of the more pressing social and moral issues of the day?”

It seems to me …

Aye. I think we should pray both more specifically and much more deeply, with greater faith. Everything tends to rote and ritual, on one hand, and to dissolution on the other – and both, both Iron Rod and Liahona tendancies, unmoored from the other, tend to apostacy – or seperation from the Spirit (which is both the Iron Rod and the Liahona) which keeps us on the path. We do, naturally, squander the opportunity provided by the prayer circle – not to mention our personal prayers, fasting, etc. etc. But that speaks of our generally underdeveloped spirituality, both individually and collectively, and says little or nothing about the nature of the prayer circle, or personal prayer, or fasting, etc.

But, I think, criticism needs to be careful. We are, after all, talking about imperfect people – the officatore, the guy praying in Sacrament meeting, muddling through,. Criticism should tend to edification in the spirirt of D&C 121 (and many other places) – if it does, I think you and I will be ok.

~

A lot of “bad” people pray in a lot of ways (including the standard ways of praying), come up with a lot of really bad conclusions, and cause a lot of bad things to pass. This does not mean that prayer itself is bad to engage in. It only indicates a need for discernment.

It is only people who originally performed the ordinances (the leaders and priests) that led the early Church to apostatize from them. That does not mean the ordinances are bad, it does not mean that we should avoid the ordinances altogether — they (the ordinances) aren’t the reason of the apostacy, it is the people’s hearts turning from the things of God. It is their unfaithfulness, their willingness to trade integrity for comfort or popularity, or wealth, etc.

Also, looking up TLC which was referenced in #79, I can only find that the Prayer Circle is the reason Harmston was excommunicated in his OWN account. It would appear that he was also engaging in Polygamy, and this seems to be the true reason of his excommunication. (I don’t know how trustworthy his own account is.)

I have not heard any counsel not to pray in this manner, except the hearsay which Mr. Harmston details was the reason for his discipline. The 1978 letter has not been read out loud to congregations to the best of my knowledge. So I am hesitant to accept that “the persons who hold the keys are counselling us *not* to do something outside the temple”

Can anyone show evidence that counsel on this subject has been given to members at large, other than Mr. Harmston?

#83, Some people would interpret the Endowment session, which we are so often encouraged to go through, as exactly that.

84
No, not outside of the temple.

As I’ve read over this conversation, I am left with three perceptions:

1) The original post was fascinating and an interesting glimpse into Mormon history (thanks, J.); at the very least, it seems to suggest origins of the LDS cultural tendency to kneel as a family (by the bed or sofa or table, or in a circle on the carpet) for family prayer.

2) Outside of the temple, the edifice described as potentially the most sacred place on earth is the home. I don’t take that to mean that my home has to physically resemble a temple in order to be a sacred place. It has far more to do with the spirit felt therein, the way we treat each other, the love we express, the things we learn together. Prior to this conversation, I had never heard of or seen a “celestial room” in someone’s home, and I lived in Provo for 15 years. I just don’t see that such a room–or an altar–is necessary to create the spirit that can be found within a loving and God-directed home.

3) I teach a class fulla squirrely nine-year-old kids right now. Each Sunday, as part of the Primary theme, these children repeat a sentence that seems of particular import to this conversation. It is this:

“I can pray to Heavenly Father any time, anywhere.”

It suggests to me that members of the Church in general–and children in particular–need to know that if they wait for optimal conditions to pray, they will find themselves praying too infrequently to make this a viable channel of communication between themselves and Deity. True, heartfelt prayer doesn’t require an altar in order to be efficacious. It requires a broken heart, a contrite spirit, and a desire to listen to God as well as speak to Him.

That’s all.

I found it interesting that someone mentioned the bed being the place where people knelt to pray as a family. My husband and I often do this, as well — not surprising since morning and evening prayers usually take place after waking and before going to bed. But this thread is reminding me of a funny little exchange we had a few weeks ago when he was helping me make the bed. He always has ever since we got married (although that was a whopping 8 weeks ago); I ever had to tell him to. As we pulled the big white sheet up and straightened it I quipped, “You know, Elder Holland said that sex is a sacrament.”

I’m truly sorry if anyone is offended that I made this comment here, but Elder Holland DID say that, and it struck me as half funny and half sweet that here we were jointly taking care of the space where we sleep together, the same way that the space for the sacrament of the Lord’s supper is prepared and covered.

This is an interesting discussion. Glad I could read all about it.