BCC Zeitcast 12

Season 1 Album Artwork (Download here)

Here’s the new Zeitcast, for reals. BCC’s weekly romp through the best of the Bloggernacle, hosted this week by Steve, Amri, Brad — and a special guest star!

Featured posts/sites:

-FLDS Coverage

-LDS Woman Obtains Australian Apology
-Correlated Girls’ Camp Songs
-More Steve Tales of Girls’ Camp
Marriott Porn (and the original Marriott Porn, thanks to Trash Calls)
-Menstrual Naughty Business
Trash Calls on Sex and Menstruation
-Ben Stein’s Movie
-Scientific American’s take on Ben Stein’s Movie


  1. Somebody’s a snacker. Crinkle. Crinkle. Munch. Munch.

  2. Usurped!

  3. I know that the scale and execution are utterly different, but when I first read the aboriginal story I though immediately of the Indian Placement Program.

  4. I didn’t read the topics and wasn’t paying attention during the first few minutes, and I thought you were talking about the IPP.

  5. I debated bringing up the IPP in the podcast, but refrained for brevity’s sake.

  6. Steve Evans says:

    Jami, you have no proof re: snacks.

  7. Steve Evans says:

    and Ronan, the appropriate Internet term is “p0wn3d.”

  8. I feel a need to point out that not only did that T&S post spawn last week’s T&S post, it also was indirectly responsible for this.

  9. Martin Willey says:

    Ronan (#3): Me too.

  10. We get CBC here in the Pacific Northwest and I seem to remember stories about the Canadian government’s similar aboriginal placement programs. Not knowing too much about it, was it as widespread as the Australian policy?

  11. If the church failed to correlate the camp song manual (while still including such favorites as “Upright, Downright,” “Fun to Do,” and “If You’re Happy”), we might find the young women of today singing recreational songs of yesteryear such as the following (credit to Ed Snow):

    “A Kiss” (“A kiss is such a curious thing, It’s never understood. You eat it not, you drink it not; and yet it is so good”); or

    The Low-Backed Car” (“The lovers come near and far,/ And envy the chicken/ That Peggy is pickin’/ As she sits in the low-backed car”).

  12. I wonder every week if Steve is eating. (Or does he just smack his lips a lot when he talks? Hey.)

    Funny stuff this week. I enjoyed Ken, but missed Ronan. (Or at least his voice. Hey!)

  13. Sandy,
    Now I know what it’s like to be a beautiful woman.

  14. Yeah, Ronan, that’s basically how it is. :)

    In all seriousness, is Steve eating during the Zeitcast? I don’t really care, other than that I am quite curious what he snacks on.

  15. Steve Evans says:

    Yes, I am eating during almost every podcast.

    This past week it was Tim’s Cascade Chips. Previously, it was Cherry Coke Zero and Life Saver Gummies. I will start announcing what food I am eating. I also suspect that I do smack my lips when I talk, mostly because what I have to say is so delicious.

  16. SC Taysom says:

    “I will start announcing what food I am eating.”
    That sounds so official. NO, officious. No. So…Dwight K. Schrute. Loved it.

  17. One week Steve was eating chocolate chip and banana pancakes…

  18. yes, I did! Thanks for those awesome pancakes honey!!

  19. I’m waiting for Clark to provide me with free Amano in exchange for my discussion of his chocolate.

  20. Steve,

    I don’t know why I appreciate this information, but I do (and now I’m hungry for chocolate chip pancakes). But it begs the question: why do you eat during the podcasts? Why not, oh, say, refrain from eating? For just a half hour or so? And dive into those ‘lil ‘ol pancakes afterwards. (Just thinking out loud… you don’t have to answer. And by all means, munch away).

  21. I am actually eating throughout the entire podcast, and simply forget sometimes to mute my mic. I know, I know — I shouldn’t. But the cocktail party atmosphere drives me to eat hors d’oeuvres!

  22. Maybe Steve’s channeling Ronald D Moore, who when he does a Battlestar Galactica podcast is always smoking a cigar and drinking. He always announces which brand of cigar and booze he’s consuming.

  23. (blushes)

    Rebecca, sadly you are exactly correct, and I specifically had Ron Moore’s podcasts in mind. I’ve been busted!

  24. It’s the tinkling of the ice as he drinks that distracts me!

  25. SC Taysom says:

    How do you know that tinkling is ice?

  26. Steve Evans says:

    It’s the cymbals on my toes.

  27. Food and podcasts go together well. I bet radio guys do it all the time. I know I would. Heck, I’d love to see the local TV news anchor having dinner right there during the broadcast. It would humanize him for me.

    Oh and on the formidable podcast Diggnation they sample various beers during the show. And the Mormon Potluck used to try new sodas at the start of each show (they really liked the cane sugar varieties).

  28. I didn’t think it was tinkling of any sort. I thought it was wrappers crinkling.

  29. Kevin Barney says:

    Wow, how’d you snag Ken for this? Very cool.

  30. Kevin Barney says:

    So I went and looked at the menstrual sex thread, and noticed that none of the commenters were identified. Is that normal for that blog? It seemed weird t me.

  31. Kevin–The commenters’ names are to the right of the comments.

  32. I just notice the chewing. But I don’t mind.
    (It really just makes me hungry).
    Now, unlike some of you, I have a job to get
    to. :) Over and out.

  33. Kevin Barney says:

    Thanks, Jami. For some reason those were off my screen to the right when I looked at it last night.

  34. Last night I started listening to this podcast – when I saw the link to the Trash Calls post I began to wonder if my comment there was criticized in the podcast … but I didn’t have the patience to sit there while my usually fast connection was downloading the thing.

    Is this something I should be worried about? Not that I would ever have any reason to worry about a solid dissing from a BCC: zeitcast …

  35. Danithew — hunh? What are you talking about?

  36. Danithew,
    Even if you’ve written something stupid, you only need to worry about having it publicly pointed out during the Zeitcast if you’ve done so in the last week.

  37. [Please note that I have not listened to the zeitcast yet. I could only speculate at what was said or if anything was said. I’m also aware that by writing further on the subject, I could be opening myself up to fresh ridicule.]

    Brad, I never thought that what I wrote in that comment at Trash Calls was stupid.

    This is an issue that would make 99.9% of LDS people crinkle their noses in disgust – and also in amazement that anyone would bother to deal with the issue in any kind of public (or even private) forum. I can understand those sentiments. It’s not exactly a topic that holds much interest for me either. This is one of those issues where I prefer things not be dictated, spelled out, etc.

    However, my point in writing the comment over at Trash Calls was to basically say that two of the world’s major religions (Judaism and Islam) have bothered to take the issue quite seriously. Somehow, they consider menstruation and anything related thereto to be a legal-religious issue, a spiritual issue, a matter of ritual purity or impurity.

    The Jewish perspective is based on some verses or chapters in Leviticus. I don’t know specifically which.

    I currently work at an orthodox Jewish institution and just a couple of months ago a student (who knows I am a Mormon) asked me to explain how Christians could ignore the Torah laws in the five books of Moses. Then, before I got the chance to even begin responding, he specifically brought up niddah. He asked how Christians can simply ignore or explain away the need to observe the restrictions/regulations of niddah (as given to Moses in Mt. Sinai). To him, this specific Jewish principle was a very serious point of religious concern and contention and as he saw it, religiously-minded Christians were neglecting to address or obey God’s law.

  38. Not to worry, danithew, your comment at TC didn’t come up. You can listen to the podcast without fear of ridicule!

  39. Steve Evans says:

    This week’s podcast, anyhow.

  40. Now, to jump into defense of danithew’s argument and make the conversation oh so interesting, Mormon female temple patrons who planned trips during the 19th century were discouraged from attending during menstruation and male and female patrons were encouraged to refrain from sexual contact during the days and weeks leading up to a temple trip. Not sure exactly how sexual contact during menstruation figured into the policies, but I’d imagine it was, uh, frowned upon.

  41. LOL, Steve. I’ll keep apprehension in store for that august occasion, whenever it should arrive.

  42. Danithew, I would simply cite the counsel of LDS leaders “not to unite with a woman in view of impregnation till 7 days after the cessation of the menstrual discharge in order for the most healthy procreation” (Journal History, Apr. 29, 1849).

  43. Justin, without a doubt, that sounds like a Mormon version of niddah.

    For awhile I was tracking a large number of Jewish blogs (maybe I should start again) and there was actually a blog that was entirely dedicated to this topic.

    After googling around again, I found it. It’s called “Mayim Rabim” (which translates as, “many waters.”

    The about page for Mayim Rabim provides some pretty solid paragraphs about the blog’s purpose:

    “Taharat hamishpacha (literally: “family purity”) refers to the Jewish laws and customs governing the cycles of physical separation and union of husband and wife. Under the Torah origin of these laws, a husband and wife are not permitted to engage in sexual intercourse when the wife is in a state of niddah, which begins whenever she experiences uterine bleeding (generally from menstruation) and ends a minimum of seven days later, provided that her bleeding has ceased and she immerses in a mikvah, or ritual bath. Rabbinic law placed additional stringencies on the length of separation and the behavior of the couple during this time. The most common practice is for the woman to be niddah for a minimum of twelve days: a presumed five-day minimum of menstruation followed by seven “white” days, also called shiva neke’im, during which the woman may perform vaginal examinations (bedikot) with a clean white cloth (commonly called a bedikah cloth or an ed) in order to ensure that all bleeding has stopped. After the termination of shiva neke’im, the woman may immerse in a mikvah. Another common practice enacted by rabbinic law is for the couple to observe additional forms of physical separation while the wife is niddah. In addition to restraining from any form of physical affection (such as hugging or kissing), the couple may avoid passing objects to one another, eating from the same plate, or sleeping in the same bed. These observances serve as constant reminders that the couple is in a phase of separation, and are intended (in part) to minimize sexual arousal during this time. This is a brief and very general overview of taharat hamishpacha. The laws are very involved, and before undertaking the practice we strongly encourage you to contact a proper halachic authority and learn the relevant laws in full.”

    So there ya go.

  44. Wm Morris says:

    Minor sidenote:

    I have no idea how that whole fiduciary responsibility thing works, but regardless of whether or not Marriott continues to provide PPV porn or decides to stop doing so, I respectfully request that they stop putting copies of the Book of Mormon in the nightstands.

    Let the Church and its members as individuals and families do the PR and the proselyting.

  45. Your obsession with this topic is truly bizarre, Danithew. Sounds like a great topic for a podcast: Danithew’s menstrual show. You could paint your face black and sing songs in Hebrew about obscure aspects of Rabinnical law relating to menstruation. Sounds like a hit!

  46. MCQ, for such a show shouldn’t he paint his face red?

  47. Well, in fact, since the Marriott family are members, members are doing the proselyting, WM.

  48. That’s just disgusting Steve.

  49. Steve Evans says:

    …yes, of course.

  50. More disgusting than the picture that accompanies the post? I think not.

  51. Wm Morris says:

    Well, in fact, since the Marriott family are members, members are doing the proselyting, WM.

    No, they aren’t. Their employees are.

    I have no problem with the Marriott family inviting anyone they meet to church, to meet with missionaries, etc. I also have no problem with them using their status in the business world and as members to speak on church-related topics to the media, various groups, and civic, business and government leaders (so long, of course, that they make it clear that they are speaking as individual members and not for the LDS Church).

    I just don’t believe that the PR benefit of putting copies of the Book of Mormon in their hotel rooms outweighs the disconnect of it also being a room where it is easy to order pay-per-view porn. This is not because I think a copy of the book itself has any sort of inherent sacred properties — that these books are somehow tainted, or whatever. I’m only looking at this as a PR issue as well as what I personally feel about how we as members should conduct ourselves.
    I suppose when it comes right down to it, it’s not the presence of the Book of Mormon so much as the gesture. To me it comes across as a false gesture. An imposition that is then a total set up for accusations of hypocrisy. An easy PR target.

    Unlike others, I’m not saying that Marriott hotels should stop carrying porn. I currently have no position on the matter as I don’t understand the legal aspects of the situation and neither do I (nor anyone else commenting the bloggernacle, as far as I know) have information on the rationale behind this business decision.

    I realize that it’s possible that more people have been converted by the copies in the nightstand than have been perverted by the easy access to porn (speaking only of those who have indulged where they may not have before — not of those who are prior porn users or addicts). But this is an instance where the symbolic trumps the utilitarian, in my opinion. And it’s a statement I’d like to see the Marriott’s make.

    If it is just a business, let it be a business. Keep my (your, our) sacred text out of it.

    Of course, I know that this is not going to happen because removing all the copies of the Book of Mormon from the hotel rooms would generate controversy and a minor media tempest and a major blog storm.

  52. MCQ, now I’m embarrassed for seeming obsessed with the topic. I’m not. I just am remembering bits and pieces of info on the subject that I’ve seen over the years. If you read enough Jewish texts and blogs over a sufficient number of years, you run into this stuff occasionally.

  53. WM, I agree that the juxtaposition is jarring, but I think the obvious solution is to stop peddling porn, not stop making the BOM available. You seem to be advocating throwing out the baby instead of the bilge water (to mix a metaphor).

    Your reticence at getting involved in the porn debate is understandable, but I think we do have more info on the subject than you indicate. See my thoughts here, if you’re interested.

  54. Sorry, that last comment was me, not Yakov. He really needs to stop using my computer.

    Danithew, stop apologizing, everyone needs a hobby. Yours is Judaic menstruation law. That’s perfectly…ok, I guess.

  55. I’ve already read your post, MCQ. I thought it very well done and my sympathies are towards those who would like Marriott properties to stop offering porn (except when those lead to making personal judgments about members of the family). I personally wish that they would remove that option.

    However, this discussion has highlighted for me, my newfound belief that I’d like to see some sharper distinctions being made between Mormons in government and business and Mormons as members and representatives of the LDS Church. Yes, there are all sorts of grey areas and I don’t mean that we should remove ourselves from the public sphere at all. And on one level, everything we do in our workplace leads to judgments by people of Mormons and the Church.

    But I don’t think that any of that should distract us from the fact that certain distinctions can be made. Mormon academics and K-12 teachers can’t, don’t and shouldn’t actively proselyte. When they deal with Mormonism, it’s within the boundaries of their field or it’s on a level of personal contact.

    Yes, there is this precedent of the Gideon Bibles when it comes to hoteliers. But I don’t think that that’s a precedent and model we should follow, especially since we have our own missionary program.

    Even if the Marriott’s decide to stop offering PPV porn, I’d like them to stop putting copies of the Book of Mormon in hotel rooms of their properties.

    Of course, if they want to put Postum in the minibar, then that’s a different story…

  56. KEN FRAKIN’ JENNINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  57. Speaking of the Order of the Arrow (12:14), when are state CPS agencies and police going to do something about the little camps of horror euphemistically known as Order of the Arrow “Ordeals”?

    When, as a young scout, I was being silenced, essentially starved, hazed by other scouts, ordered by leaders to march for unknown distances in the darkness through the woods, subjected to bizarre campfire ceremonies put on by strangers wearing faux–and creepily indecent–Native American getup, commanded to spend the night in an open field (without any protection from bears, badgers, wolverines, chupracabras, or the natural elements), and forced to perform hours of manual labor (in violation of all child labor laws) at one such Ordeal, did anyone respond to my calls for help? No.

  58. Coming this summer: 500 boys ‘rescued’ from Camp Philocrates.

  59. RE #56

    Are you sure, Ronan? He sounded like J. Stapley to me.

  60. Have Ken and Stapley been seen in the same room together?

  61. Justin, aren’t you more of a man for that experience though?
    Through that ordeal, can’t you now tell if a badger is friend or foe? Can’t you look back with a testimony of experience knowing that you can work hard?
    If you answer yes to all of these questions (and you should be embarrassed if you don’t) then clearly the Ordeal served its purpose.

  62. Now that you mention it, Ken did seem a little fixated on naturally-sourced artificial sweeteners.

  63. Mark Brown says:

    Maybe I missed it – Did Ken happen to mention that naturally-sourced artificial sweeteners can be used for ritual healing purposes?

  64. To OA Survivors

    So…my son has just been invited to become a member of the Order of the Arrow. Ordeal? Secrecy? He was recommended by nice guys in our ward. Will he come back in one piece? Will he be broken in spirit and body? What’s the deal?

    A Mother Who Doesn’t Know

  65. Justin, aren’t you more of a man for that experience though?

    Actually, I experienced an increase in gender confusion during the “Ordeal.”

    Through that ordeal, can’t you now tell if a badger is friend or foe?

    Badger: foe
    Bear: friend (a couple of female bears took care of some of my tormentors)
    Wolverine: foe
    Chupracabra: didn’t meet any
    Natural elements: best friend (heavy rain cut the manual labor short by one hour)

    Can’t you look back with a testimony of experience knowing that you can work hard?

    Perhaps I could do so had I not separated my right shoulder carrying a 500-pound wood beam up the side of a mountain. At least I now know that my left shoulder can work hard.

  66. Jami, see the lively debate at this thread. In particular, warn your son to be wary of any horses nearby (see this comment).

  67. Jami, the OA is a wacky cultish ceremony that I would never submit my kids to.

  68. Did someone say chupacabra? (looks around expectantly …)

  69. That was me. Danithew, where were you when we needed someone to call an end to those interminable Marriott threads?

  70. Justin, I hope that left shoulder testimony takes you far in life.

    what the heck were you building? or is it really just to make you do “hard work”

  71. Some kind of camp site. (At least that’s what we were told; for all I know, the next group of scouts was ordered to take it apart.)

  72. Justin,
    What about these?

  73. Brad: capybara=friend

    I can’t believe that’s even a question.

  74. Wow, Justin. That’s more horror than my mind can absorb at the moment. I got through the first few dozen comments. I’ll sic my scout on it when he gets home and he can make the decision. It looks like I’ll be going if he does. Sounds really fun.

  75. Justin, it is sad to concede that the chupacabra has been an endangered species of late in the Bloggernacle. Consequently many threads run amok.

  76. I’ve never encountered one, but I’ll say that capybaras look friendly enough. Their close relative, the chupacabra, on the other hand, is pretty iffy.

  77. That’s easy for you to say, Amri. The only one you’ve evidently encountered was dead and gutted. Hardly a threat…

  78. I have encountered other capybaras all have been very friendly and cute. In fact, the dead, gutted one was the least friendly of the bunch.

    I agree with Justin’s iffyness on the chupacabra.

  79. Eric Russell says:

    The blogosphere already abounds with speculation that the left-linked Yale art project is a hoax. Allegedly, what she actually did was physically implausible. I don’t know, but I suppose people will be able to make better evaluations after they’ve actually seen it.

  80. Steve Evans says:

    I hope it’s a hoax, it certainly has that air about it.

  81. Eric Russell says:

    Donated sperm: Free
    Abortifacient drugs: $55
    Film and image development: $35
    15 Minutes of Fame: Priceless

  82. Possible Moral Repercussions: Eternal

  83. gst saves the day! Give that man a Niblet.

  84. Whew.

  85. By the way, when I got a D in Physics 127? That too was an act of performance art.

  86. No hoax has rocked us so to our very core since Banner of Heaven.

  87. California Condor says:

    How do we know this Yale student wasn’t just lying to Yale University officials so that she would still be allowed to graduate?

  88. CC,
    How do you know that BCC, gst, and NRO aren’t just punking you?

  89. California Condor says:


    Read the Yale press release.

  90. Not sure what you mean by that, CC. Which is more likely: that she was lying about performing an outrageous, medically impossible publicity stunt that violates all imaginable ethical horizons and is now telling the truth, or that she is now lying to cover up the fact that she was telling the truth about defying the laws of human physiology?

    The former is both infinitely more believable and much, much better as provocative performance art.

  91. California Condor says:


    I guess I didn’t realize her stunt was medically impossible.

  92. Brad, “better” is a relative term. It’s still unethical — just cruelly fraudulent, not murderous.

  93. So…back to the Order of the Arrow. My son went and read through the thread and still really wants to do it.

    He said, “Of course, I want to go. Yeah, the horse thing was bad, but the rest of the stories–I just kept thinking, ‘wimps.'” This from my son, the knitter.

    So off to play with wacky cult members he goes.

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