I know condemnation, sir, and you are no condemner!

I would like to make a proposal for the bloggernacle. If you are going to condemn someone for being a “bad Mormon,” please provide specific examples of bad behavior and the specific commandments being violated. Of course, it would be better to just shut up since, generally speaking, you ain’t their bishop and are in no position to judge them. But if you insist on so doing, please be specific.

I would tentatively outlaw comments about the following that do not feature peer-reviewed evidence or evidence that is substantiated in some other trustworthy manner:

The right
The left
Iron Rods
Robber Barons

I realize that this is violating some notion of free speech and our god-given ability to make fools of ourselves. But I am tired already and it is only Monday morning.

Do you have suggestions as to what should be added to the list or proof that something on the list should be removed because it really is evil? Please comment below.


  1. John C. says:

    Why yes, this is a reaction to this and this. How did you know?

  2. Maybe it should be permissable to comdemn any of these groups, as long as you specifically state that you are condemning “my own lazy, flawed stereotype of ___________.”

  3. I think you forgot Cain and(is ;)) Bigfoot…

  4. But what then of those who condemn those who condemn? If we condemn the condemners, not only are we ironic hypocrites, but half the Bloggernacle is out of business. And now I’m dizzy.

  5. Mark IV says:


    I am not surprised that you are offended by these things. The wicked take the truth to be hard. No doubt, you have some unconfessed sins of a moral nature, and that is why you you are led astray and cannot see these simple truths.

  6. You’re just a bad Mormon, John C. Evidence: you omitted kittens from your list of evidenceless-outlawed comments, you chauvinist progressive robber baron.

  7. Cynthia L. says:

    Awesome John C., and very funny CE.

  8. Cynthia L. says:

    If we can’t make wildly unsubstantiated and uncharitable religious condemnations of others, what will we do? I hereby propose as a replacement, making wildly unsubstantiated and uncharitable quasi-Freudian condemnations of others. Allow me to demonstrate the technique:

    John C., my, what a very long list you have constructed there. Some of those things don’t even make sense, and were clearly added just to pad the length of the list. I’ve got you all figured out! Trying to compensate for something, eh? Eh? Thought so.


  9. I reserve the right to condemn idiots, myself included.

  10. Matt W. says:

    The first person who can use all the words John decries in order gets a prize! (I tried, but chickened out when “homosexuals” and “Iron rods” were back to back…)

  11. Mark IV says:

    I agree, Matt W. And the following phrases also deserve special credit:

    you and your ilk

    spew hate

    blinded by the craftiness of men

    You are persecuting me because of political corectness.

    As for me and my house

  12. Steve Evans says:

    How about,

    1. …..because he is really mean and nasty to those who disagree with him; and

    2…. because he edited my comments and/or banned me.

  13. Ryan Bell says:

    I think the suggestion that someone condemning someone here might be that person’s bishop is awesome.


    #343 by Seerstone23

    John, you are a horrible Mormon. It is obvious that you prefer political correctness to the gospel, and I assume that you sympathize with homosexuals. I testify that you will burn in Hell with your ilk.

    #344 by Admin

    How dare you make a personal attack like that. None of us is in a position to judge John. Cease such unrighteous judgments immediately or suffer bannination.

    #345 by Seerstone23

    Actually, I’m his bishop. John’s been too busy to meet with me in person, so he asked me to send my authoritative ecclesiastical judgments of him via this comment thread. Let me add that his heart is full of wicked pride that will prove his undoing at the hands of vengeful God.

    #346 by Admin

    Ah, well, then. Carry on.


    I would be more than happy to hear ad hominem attacks on Bloggernacle threads if such attacks are made by the Bishop of the person in question. Let’s all work together to make this happen, please.

  14. AMEN RYAN!!

  15. Ryan,

    It is obvious that John is a bad, bad Mormon, and yet you defend him. How long will you continue to kick against the pricks? Please tell me that you have not been misled as well. Perhaps it must needs be that you suffer the buffettings of Satan for a season so you can overcome your pride. Then you can be like unto the rest of us righteous people.

  16. Wait, I just Amen’d him Mark. Now I am torn between my Amen and my unflinching support of everything you say. Oh, the huge manatee!

  17. BCC's Bishop says:

    Going to Hell, every single one of you commie-Sunstone-intellectual-artist-pedophiles.

    If you care to discuss, see me in my office this Sunday right after Priesthood. Thanks.

  18. That’s a very reactionary post. I can see what you’re trying to do to get but the left and the right will never meet. They’re two sides of the same Iron rod. Apologists might try to say that you can make peace. But Hitler and Stalin proved them wrong. I mean you have one side that loves Robber Barons and extoll the values of capitalism while everyone else has little to live on. Whilst the law of concecration is claimed by the communists. The answer is in the middle.

    Really we must take a progressive stance to deal with new hostile enivornment that the church has created for itself (there’s plenty of blame, no need to be conservative about it). Everyone has an inner Liahona and frankly they’re pointing different in different directions. The church once excelled at inclusion under Hinckley and it must do so again as it seems we have all forgotten those talks. Perhaps many mormons will consider this a liberal idea. But the church cannot afford to go on it’s tirade against environmentalism, democrats and calendar missionaries, lest they want to create a bunch more Ex-mormons. In the end it many would make it out right now that you must unqeustioningly follow the leadership or you’re an apostate. That serves no one, especially in a church that was founded on finding the truth for yourself. It is a dark time for church and the bloggernacle. Hopefully they can find their way.


  19. How long will you continue to kick against the pricks

    Wiat, this might violate the proposed new rules. Wouldn’t it be more charitable to castigate Ryan for kicking against the “jerks” or the “losers”?

  20. Where are the puppies, ronito? I want puppies.

  21. Damn puppies.

  22. I’m glad we still can take shots at evangelicals.

  23. Good point, Ray.

    Also on the list:
    Traditional Christians
    Non-traditional Christians
    Restored Christians

    The vilification of puppies requires justification. The vilification of cats requires none. Dogs look at humans with adoration. Cats wonder what we would taste like.

  24. So this leaves Cats, Kittens, Mother-in-Laws, athiests, butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers all open to ridicule.

    Unless their democrats or republicans. So I guess that leaves green party or libertarian Cats, Kittens, Mother-in-Laws, athiests, butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers all open to ridicule.

  25. Aaron Brown says:

    One possible solution to all this is to outsource all our condemnatory rhetoric and vitriol to one Mrs. Prudence McPrude. I hear she is more than capable of calling a spade a spade, an apostate an apostate, a liberal an apostate, etc.


  26. Repent, you cat-hater!

  27. But Jehovah’s Witnesses are fair game, then?

    Don’t you mean: Cat thinkz you has a flavor ?

    (unrelated note: the sideblog has an entry that spills onto this page. Very funny video of a guy making incredible soccer ball kicks.)

  28. Cynthia L. says:

    #16–love the huge manatee. LOVE!!!

  29. Mad propz to #28.


    FHL, I think we can have an exception for LOLcats. This one, for example.

  30. Jami,
    I assure you from my personal life experience that I know whereof I speak. I was once eaten by a tabby.

    I got better.

  31. Mark IV, you are on a roll! Bucking for Stake President, I bet.

  32. The cutest baby in town was born on Bastille Day. Happy Bastille Day to you as well, Steve.

    John, I was once eaten by a shits-u (ever wonder how they got that name). I still like dogs. Repent, dude.

  33. What about lawyers? We usually get a hard time for no good reason (One call, that’s all!).

  34. Lawyers deserve it

  35. What about High Priests’ Group? If you can’t tease High Priests’ group, who can you tease?

  36. I doubt this will work.

    Take my number one issue: the war in Iraq. I can criticize those who support the war, and have all sorts of evidence to back my point up, but in the end, there is no single authoritative arbiter that can finally end the stalemate. It continues on and on and on, even long after we finally do leave Iraq (as evidenced by the fact that baby boomers still argue over Vietnam—and hell, great-great-great grand kids of the fighters of the Civil War still duke it out!).

  37. Just so we’re clear, I’m not sure who I condemned as a “bad Mormon.” Please enlighten me.

  38. Bryce, I read your column on M* and it appeared that you were trying to make me feel guilty for calling it the “Best Pixar Movie Ever”.

    As for me and my house, we only serve mammon with guacamole and Tobasco sauce.

  39. Steve Evans says:

    Bryce, I think you condemned that cute robot. Not sure who else.

  40. Mark IV says:


    Oh, how cunning are the ways of the evil one. Perhaps it has not occurred to you that tobasco is almost identical to toba**o. How many of our young people might read your comment and be led astray? They will rationalize their sins by saying that you do almost the same thing. Do you want that on your conscience? I hope you will repent and avoid the very appearance of evil.

    As for me and my house, we will only go see Wall-E when our new tinfoil hats have arrived. I understand it is necessary to wear them in order to block out the voices that tell you to get an abortion.

  41. Bryce,
    I assumed that since you grouped Wall-E with some random idiot, that you were grouping environmentalist Mormons with random idiots. I apologize if I misread.

  42. WALL-E is the Best Pixar Movie Ever.

  43. re # 37, Bryce, didn’t you throw a Joseph Smith quote at my implying that I was in violation of it or that you were standing for correct principles no matter how unpopular they are?

    You used the following Joseph Smith quote (in error) against me as if I am advocating something that is unrighteous by supporting better stewardship of the earth as a Latter-day Saint:

    It mattereth not whether the principle is popular or unpopular, I will always maintain a true principle, even if I stand alone in it.

    As I noted in a comment at M* that you piously deleted, this just as easily condemns you. Why can’t you see that?

    The Joseph Smith quote just as easily be wielded against you if we assume that you are the one in doctrinal error and the environmentally conscious Latter-day Saints are standing for true principles (which is the case — I said so, I am righteous, and nothing you say can possibly get me to change my mind that if you disagree with me, you are playing Satan’s game and persecuting the saints of God).

  44. John F., I used the Joseph Smith quote to express my own feelings on environmentalism, and the barrage of unpopular criticism that I was receiving. I apologize if you took it as an attack; it was not meant as such.

  45. Okay, after that brief interlude, howsa bout less discussion of Bryce and a return to feline defamation.

    Aristocats: Bad movie or Worst movie?

  46. Mark, # 40,

    GASP! I’ll have to give up Tobasco, and Root Beer, as well! Meanwhile, since you mentioned the tin foil hats, perhaps you could work on a sweded version of WALL-E.

  47. Steve Evans says:

    How can the Aristocats be so bad if The Cat From Outer Space was so good?

  48. That is just that sort of argument I’d expect from a petty, progressive feline apologist such as yourself, Evans. Ask yourself, have the Brethren ever spoken in appreciation of cats? I think not!

  49. Good to see that the defense of WALL-E continues, even if someone else in another place gave up defending it there and shut down the comments section.
    I now have a new favorite Mormon blog, and it’s not the Millennial Star.

  50. WALL-E is the Best Pixar Movie Ever.

    Close, it’s second after Finding Nemo.

  51. Steve Evans says:

    You Incredibles haters can all go to Hell (or Provo).

  52. I’m surprised you libs aren’t championing A Bug’s Life what with its clear communist and anti-family message. It may take a village, but that village will take you to Outer Darkness.


  53. Cynthia L. says:

    #45, don’t defame felines. I like dogs and cats, and in fact all animals. Except stinkin’ dolphins!

    #51, you’ve stumbled on a true find–Provo is not on John’s list. Praise be!

  54. Do I have eyes that sparkle like diamonds in the night?

    Thank you, Mr. O’Malley for saving my life.

    Aristocats = Worst Disney movie ever. Sexist and racist and more than slightly nauseating. But the cats are cute. I didn’t realize that Madame was a looney-tune until I grew up.

    Hard to chose a best Pixar, but probably a tie between Incredibles and Nemo. Toy Story was pretty impressive too.

  55. My cat can eat a whole watermelon

  56. Aluwid,
    Mine likes Mahler.

  57. Yeah, well, my cat ate Mahler.

  58. Starfoxy, but you have to admit your cat’s dead! He’s deader than a doornail! That cat is colder than a well digger’s…

  59. She doesn’t have to admit that. She doesn’t have to admit anything!!

  60. She has to admit there’s hair on her head!

  61. Your bald!

    Think about it…

  62. Phouchg says:

    Well, of course, this is just the sort of blinkered philistine pig-ignorance I’ve come to expect from you non-creative garbage. You sit there on your loathsome spotty behinds squeezing blackheads, not caring a tinker’s cuss for the struggling artist. You excrement, you whining hypocritical toadies with your colour TV sets and your Tony Jacklin golf clubs and your bleeding masonic secret handshakes. You wouldn’t let me join, would you, you blackballing bastards. Well I wouldn’t become a Freemason now if you went down on your lousy stinking knees and begged me!

    (hat tip: Monty Python’s Architect Sketch)

  63. Put evangelicals back on!! Right now, young man! This is your mother talking!

  64. John C.,


    I’m surprised you libs aren’t championing A Bug’s Life what with its clear communist and anti-family message. It may take a village, but that village will take you to Outer Darkness.

    Ironically, I found A Bug’s Life to be Pixar’s “worst” (there are no bad movies from Pixar). Further irony, what I found didn’t work for me in A Bug’s Life was the individuality of Flick. I certainly would not trust the defense of my ant colony to a reckless endangerment like him!

  65. Adam Greenwood says:

    John C., you are a bad Mormon.

    Evidence: this post.

    Commandment violated: arrogating the province of God, the prophet, the bishop, and other rightful authorities to tell us how to act.

  66. Your Bishop says:

    Whosoever dislikes The Incredibles is a sodomite.

  67. All Y'alls Bishop says:

    The best Pixar movie is Monster’s, Inc.. End of discussion.

    (Anyone who disagrees will be banished called on a mission to Siberia—oh wait! can we still send missionaries there?)

  68. All Y'alls Bishop's Stake President says:

    You are hereby released on account of lacking the gift of discernment.

  69. Fake Thomas Monson says:

    Cut it out, pesky local leaders. Ratatouille is Pixar’s best.

    Paste this comment into your Leonard Maltin DVD Guides.

  70. I hope the buck stops with the FTM.

  71. All Y'alls Bishop says:

    @68: Sorry, dude, but I’m a literal descendant of Aaron. You can’t touch me!

  72. All Y'alls Bishop says:

    Jami: At this point, I think Yoda, Captain Picard, and Dr. Who #4 are all on the table.

  73. Jonathan Green says:

    I once attended a ward with Mike and Sully from “Monsters, Inc.” At least, there were two guys who looked and acted similarly enough to them (minus the single large eyeball and blue fur) to be distracting.

  74. Danite Angel says:

    #71: Oh, yeah?

    FTM: Sorry, dude, my conscience overrules you.

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