MMTP: Judgment Day Edition

Your Monday Morning Theological Poll:

After the Judgment, which of the following two places will have more people: The Celestial Kingdom or Outer Darkness?

Please give your reasons below.

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  1. As I understand it the souls in outer darkness have committed extremely serious sins (e.g. blasphemy of The Holy Ghost) which not many souls will have the opportunity to commmit!

    With this concept in mind I don’t think that that it is necessariliy because there is more righteous than there is wicked. It is simply because so few will have committed the sins that will take them to outer darkness. The other two kingdoms will undoubtedly have the most souls abiding therein!!

  2. Noble One says:

    I agree entirely with Deaco – Well Put!

  3. The Right Trousers says:

    Shouldn’t every soul have an opportunity to commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost? We believe God is an equal-opportunity exalter, so shouldn’t he be an equal-opportunity damner as well?

    Is there a way to sin against the Holy Ghost by proxy? Or is that something you can do all by yourself on the other side after you’ve accepted your baptism?

    Yeah, this week’s MMTP is deeper than you think.

  4. why is blasphemy against the HG a more condemnable sin than blasphemy against HF or JC?

  5. “Shouldn’t every soul have an opportunity to commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost?” Certainly, but maybe not as directly as you imply. Couldn’t there be some things one must accept before given that chance, such that one might never have the chance to blaspheme the Holy Ghost because one rejected an “introductory gospel”?

    I voted more in the CK because I hope that most people, when given the experience of the Holy Ghost, will cherish it.

  6. “why is blasphemy against the HG a more condemnable sin than blasphemy against HF or JC?”

    Because the Holy Ghost is really Heavenly Mother!

    /stirs pot

  7. The Right Trousers says:


    It’s a red pill morning, people.

  8. MikeInWeHo says:

    What exactly is “blasphemy against the Holy Ghost” ??

  9. Keep in mind that, if you define the thirds literally, Outer Darkness will contain a few billion evil spirits. Although, it may be cheating to include them.

  10. Bro. Jones says:

    I always understood the Book of Mormon (Alma 39:5) to imply that those who murder the innocent are also numbered among the Sons of Perdition. If that’s the case, there are going to be a lot of folks bumping elbows in Outer Darkness.

  11. I voted outer darkness because I was thinking of the third who chose poorly in the preexistence. But, I forgot about the incredibly high infant (and early childhood) mortality rate throughout most of human history. So, that’s probably another third straight to the CK. Which may leave the question back to whether there will be more who made it to the age of accountability on earth who go to the CK than OD. In that case, I change my vote to more in the CK.

  12. Bro. Jones – As I understand it, only Christ was innocent, that is why sinning against him through the HG is so bad. It is the HG that bares testimony of Christ, meaning, that is how we come to know Christ.

  13. The Other Bro Jones says:

    A statistician’s response:
    Can we assume a normal distribution? I think the two kingdoms would be equally populated.

  14. I chose CK because there seem to be so many potential pathways:

    –accept the gospel in this life and do your best to live & endure to the end

    –accept the gospel in the next life and get proxy-baptized, washing away all your earthly sins

    –die before you reach the age of accountability

    –never reach the age of accountability because of physical/mental limitations

    –lack access to the gospel message during your lifetime (that’s a LOT of people – think of all the centuries and places where the restored gospel has not been preached) – D&C 137:7-8
    ” 7 Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;
    8 Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom”

    –hear about and look forward to Christ’s coming, prior to his birth (Mosiah 15:11, 24)

  15. It actually seems to me when you map all these in a Ven diagram, that the portion of God’s children who actually accept the gospel in their lifetimes AND willfully rebel against it must be very small.

  16. Keep also in mind that all of the verses in scripture that mention the “third” of the host of heaven actually say “third PART”–which could reasonably be interpreted as something other than one-third of the population; it could be simply a third group–the ultra excited (1), the wishy-washy (2), and the rejectors (3). Of course, if we consider than Heavenly Father has worlds without number, and logically children without number, any number over infinity is zero, and thus an exact 1/3 is nonsensical. Personally, I like to think of “1/3” as simply a nice way of saying “lots”.

  17. Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost as expressed by Joseph Smith is thus:

    “a person must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against Him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him…. he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened to him, and to deny the Plan of Salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it”

    As I understand it not many will have this opportunity………….thankfully! This is also known as the shedding of innocent blood as this act is compared to crucifying Christ afresh and shedding the only true innocent blood. Some of the brethren have went one step further and said that the prophets can also fall into this category if their blood is shed.

    I can only presume this extends to children, but I don’t really know??!!

  18. I think I’d like to change my answer based on the thirds. If a third go to OD, that leaves 2/3 between the 3 kingdoms, with the CK being the most elite (elitist?) Chances seem pretty good that you’ll end up with a lion’s share in the Terrestrial with the rest divided up between the Telestial and Celestial. I’m thinking, statistically, something like this:
    33% Outer Darkness
    5% Telestial
    57% Terrestrial
    5% Celestial

  19. No contest. The majority of the 50-100 billion humans who were born upon this earth will be in the celestial kingdom. Why? Because through most of Earth’s history and over most of its surface, the mortality rate by age 8 was easily at or over 50%.

    As for outer darkness — I tend to take the “1/3 following Satan” as, at best, a crude approximation, meaning, “way below 1/2 but more than just a few.” As to mortals who lived upon this earth who end up in outer darkness, I would be truly surprised if they numbered more than a few hundred.

    I have no clue about the mix between terrestrial and telestial, nor how many of those who never had the gospel in this life (but passed the age of 8) will accept it and qualify for the celestial kingdom. I’m mostly concerned about myself and my family. ..bruce..

  20. The bell curve applies here, right? If so, the vast majority of people will end up in the terrestrial k. The amount in the celestial and telestial kingdoms will be small by comparison, but still greater than the amount of people in OD.

    Unless you count the one-third of the host of heaven, which I don’t. Also, Bruce is right: those who died before the age of accountability, or who were never accountable because of mental disability, adds up to a lot of people.

  21. Celestial.

    To me, the most important passage in Section 76 is verses 40-44: The gospel is that Jesus came to save everyone.

  22. Last Lemming says:

    At the risk of taking this way too seriously, why on earth would you assume a normal distribution? And even if you did, why would you assume that the boundaries between kingdoms were equidistant from the mean?

    Personally, I reject the whole unidimensional model, so don’t bother asking what alternative distribution I would suggest.

  23. My presumption is that if someone could stand in front of the God of love and feel hatred, they will go to outer darkness. This, it seems to me, is nearly impossible.

    The real question, why do we assume that the spiritual cerebrum is like the wet one? Why do we assume that there is an analogous mid-brain, unconscious mind and emotions? Why do we think that we will feel anything?

    Will God punish a spiritual being for the sins of the wet stuff?