You Make the Call: The Gospel as a Weapon Edition

Suppose that you are faithful Latter-day Saint who lives in a part of the world where there are few members of the Church, and everyone knows each other–or knows someone who knows those you don’t. A small, close-knit network of several 3rd and 4th generation families and their children, minimally impacted by converts and migration.

Suppose further that your spouse is a very well-respected member of the Church–generally regarded as a highly spiritual person, faithful to temple covenants, magnifies callings, has friends in lofty local leadership positions, and serves in the ward otherwise in ways that demonstrate to all observers that he is an honest, loving, faithful Latter-day Saint, husband, and father. Suppose, however, that the truth is, your spouse is a monster who uses the gospel as a weapon to demean you, to malign you, and to compel you into submission in all areas of life. A monster who has abused you in every way imaginable, draining of you of any light or happiness you once had while forcing you to live in fear for your life, and convinced you that you’re an unworthy, sinful, waste of a spouse who holds the whole family back from achieving its potential in the Kingdom. Suppose that, after enduring five years of abuse in secret, you finally flee with your children for a safe house.

Suppose that, during the divorce proceedings, your ex-spouse-to-be tries to convince you to come home, to not destroy an eternal family. Suppose also that your spouse has enlisted the help of all your joint friends to talk you into returning. Suppose that he has hedged his reputation in every imaginable way, creating lie after lie and planting rumors of your mental instability, your “need to find yourself,” and giving watery-eyed speeches in Church about the love he has for you, while secretly sending you text messages full of vitriol, filth, and cruelty. Suppose that he has taken your flee and call for help, and spun it publicly as a woman walking out on her family, destroying an eternal marriage, and rejecting temple covenants. Suppose that through it all, you have turned the other cheek, and having determined to not give him any ammunition he might use before a judge in a custody hearing, you have refused to stoop to his level or drag his name through the mud by telling “your side of the story” to people who really have no business prying into your marriage or personal life. Suppose that your only refuge is your own family, a few old friends, and a Bishop who has seen through the lies and nonsense, but who is largely powerless.

Suppose that you win big in your divorce proceedings, because the judge also can spot a narcissist in sheep’s clothing, and you get a final divorce, full custody of the kids, and a new start. Suppose though, that your now ex-spouse will not let you get an new start, because he continues to spread rumors about you to anyone you go on a date with, to show up at functions where you might have social outlets, to refuse his court-appointed time with the kids if it happens to allow you to engage with anyone on a social level. Suppose he continues to abuse you verbally, if not physically, and tries to turn your children against you, while simultaneously frequently and strategically refusing to see the kids or pay child support.

Suppose that, in this close-knit network of small wards and stakes where everyone knows everyone, you have grown weary of countless “friends” and ward members telling you to return, to forgive, and to repent. Suppose that you’ve grown tired of discovering, after an exciting first date, that your ex-husband has “gotten to him,” and ruined any hope for a second date.

You make the call: Is it okay to go on the offensive?


You Make the Call: The Gospel as a Weapon Edition


  1. Stephanie says:

    So you met my parents?

  2. He was dumb enough to put vitriol into text messages? Who needs an offensive? Just pass your phone around.

  3. MikeInWeHo says:

    What exactly would it mean for her to “go on the offensive” ?? Just telling her side of the story and responding to his lies with the truth?

  4. Anonymous says:

    As difficult as it may be to follow the admonition of the Savior and say nothing, that is what I would do and have done in the past.

    My first marriage ended in divorce and I vowed that I would never say a negative word about my former spouse to anyone, even family members. Additionally, I made it a point not to discuss my former spouse with my current spouse.

    Divorce is a painful and devastating process on husband, wife, children and extended families. Why make it even more painful by exacting revenge–even if you feel justified in doing so? I love the words to the hymn “School Thy Feelings” and believe it is what the Savior would have us do in situations like these.

    In the situation above, at a minimum, I think speaking with the Bishop and Stake President (and sharing the text messages) seems warranted and appropriate. Lashing out at the former spouse personally and to others would be inappropriate. Legal action (e.g. – order of protection, court action for lack of child support payment, etc.) also seems appropriate.

  5. I am going to argue with one of the assumptions–the bishop is only powerless to the extent to which he lacks any backbone. Assuming the other facts to be true, the bishop can easily release the ex-husband from any and all positions, and probably can relieve him of his temple recommend based on the “family relationship” question. With the status the ex-husband obviously derives from his social standing in the Church, that should get his attention.

    Of course, I am kind of passive-aggressive myself, so that is the approach I would recommend….

  6. What no. 4 said.

  7. Move far, far away.

    How is it that a joker like this hasn’t been excommunicated? Doesn’t “amen to the priesthood of that man” make it pretty clear what should happen here? Seems like a small LDS community would connect the dots pretty quickly if you’re still in the church while he’s getting chucked out on his big fat behind.

    I think in a situation like this the Savior would get out the whip.

  8. MikeInWeHo (3.),
    You can decide what “offensive” means and respond accordingly. I don’t presume to know.

    O (7.),
    Suppose that you live in a place where a certain language is spoken, and you don’t speak any other languages. Or that your court order requires your ex to have access to the children. Or whatever else you need to imagine to suppose that “moving” as far away as is realistic still doesn’t remove you from the “close-knit community.”

  9. One small thing – if she wants independence, she shouldn’t rely on her ex for her date-night babysitting. And she should be glad for every time he refuses to take the children. If she wants independence.

    And, to stir the pot, according to Dr. Laura, she should not consider dating until the children are raised. I don’t agree with that generality, but dating does seem to be a high priority for the woman in the example.

  10. CS Eric (5.),

    In this supposed world which may or may not resemble the life of someone I know, the husband has been released, but temple recommends can only be taken away if he agrees to meet with the Bishop, Stake President, etc…that is why the Bishop is powerless to some degree–he can’t simply stand up in Sacrament meeting and demand the temple recommend.

    O (7.),
    Rarely are people excommunicated for abuse of this nature–especially if it is a “first-time” accusation. In this scenario, while the abuse has been going on for years, it is “new” to the Bishop. Certainly his priesthood is gone in any meaningful spiritual sense, but try convincing him of that!

  11. One small thing – if she wants independence, she shouldn’t rely on her ex for her date-night babysitting. And she should be glad for every time he refuses to take the children. If she wants independence.

    Suppose that this is not “date-night babysitting” at all, but rather “his legal right to have the kids on the weekend,” but if there happens to be a Church social that weekend (they live in different cities), then he will refuse to take the children.

    Now, of course it is in one sense great that he refuses the kids–he’s a monster; in another sense, it’s not: First, he was–despite his behavior toward the mother, not abusive to the children. Second, the mother needs a break from 4 children for an evening from time to time, and parental visitation rights meet that need.

  12. my understanding (which could be very wrong) is that they could “deactivate” the scan bar/code on the temple reccommend.

    hopefully this sister is also getting good LDS counseling to help her deal w/this, perhaps encourage her to meet w/other sisters who have suffered painful divorces (I realize some men are also victims)

    it would also be good if somehow someone who knows the whole story could advocate for her/sort of defend her honor in necessary situations.

    Hope this sister can heal

  13. If this hypothetical person lives in the Seattle area, email my wife and I. We’d gladly take the kids and babysit them for free, if that’s allowed.

  14. I think you must know my father.

  15. MikeInWeHo says:

    Matthew 5:39 is such a challenging scripture, when you start applying it to real-life scenarios.

  16. This is why my mother had to move 2000 miles to the East Coast. :)

    The small town and most members bought his story while the horror continued unabated. Since I had moved away for the same reason, I helped her come to where I was.

    Re-read D&C 121 and pray about the situation. Then have the guts to follow it. Don’t take personally what others say and do in their ignorance.

    So sad this has to happen in Zion!! But it does!! Many, many times!!

  17. Aaron Brown says:

    You don’t wanna know what I think.

    A quibble: How does he turn the kids against her if he’s refusing to see them?

  18. I’d recommend using one of these on the ex:

    Talk about the gospel as a weapon!

  19. Aaron (17),

    Good catch. Suppose what I should have written is that he “frequently and strategically” refuses to take the kids.

  20. Kaimi,
    That is splendid. If only I had NT-fortified rifle sights during my hunting days

  21. I’d be pointing people at this little thing I wrote much earlier in the process than your question jumps in. It will help with reasonable people, and there are a finite number of unreasonable priesthood leaders.

    This situation is not that uncommon. I’d point your friend at the lds-divorce mail lists through Yahoo-groups for some support from folks who have been through tough situations and have some stuff to say. As with others, I don’t know what “on the offensive” would mean, but certainly rolling over and playing dead is a bad idea.

    And, if this friend’s ex lives in San Diego and is an attorney, she might want to contact me — I may have evidence that he has conspired to have her killed. This is highly unlikely — this evidence is more than a year old — but I thought I’d bring it up, just in case.

  22. This is why when people get divorced, I don’t think I know why and I certainly don’t think about “who to blame.”

    Sadly, most LDS divorces I’ve been around have at least some of these elements.

  23. MikeInWeHo says:

    re: 18
    Wow. Just wow.

  24. @ #8

    That is why I always tell everybody that they should know more than their own language (I say this only half in jest)… your hypothetical situation is not at all hypothetical to some people.

  25. Hell yeah! All out offensive man!

  26. I would move. Seriously. 2000 miles (as mentioned @16) should do the trick.

    Even if the guy deserves an “offensive,” the victim will suffer further psychological harm by remaining mired in this battle (or escalating it, continuing to have her life revolve around it). A clean break would be much healthier and less stressful. You have custody, so find a place where you can build a new social support system, and go.

  27. Take it to the courts. Get his child support automatically deducted from his pay–let the legal structures take care of the money.

    As for visitation, it’s tough. If she has full custody then he has no legal requirement to visit. Yes that is very inconvenient and means that she cannot plan on any childless sociality unless she is willing to pony up for a babysitter. But it is the fact of full custody.

    I have a hard time believing that if she just didn’t engage the criticism directed at her by Church members that it wouldn’t go away in time. Eventually, ex hubby’s temple recommend will need to be renewed and when it isn’t and he has no callings, etc and she just keeps living her normal life, I think it will become apparent how things shook out.

    The only thing that doesn’t ring true to me in the scenario is the woman’s focus on getting a break/socializing. I know being a single mom is tough, really, I do, but I just don’t think anyone would have that as their priority. Sure, she wants a break, but is that what is ruining her life? No. Sure, it might be nice to date, but if it doesn’t happen, it doesn’t happen.

  28. I get what you guys are saying about moving, but she may be legally limited by her divorce agreement. Also, the trade off of not having the guy in her hair (although he could move, too) may not be worth the trade off of leaving her own family of origin. I bet their support to her is crucial in many ways.

  29. “First, he was–despite his behavior toward the mother, not abusive to the children.”

    Is that really possible at this level of abuse? Maybe not physically, but certainly there’s a heavy psychological and emotional toll on the kids while they were all living together…

  30. Exactly what ESO says: most of the time, you can’t move. Even if your divorce allows it, you would have to pay for the children to visit your spouse. She has no choice but to interact with him to some extent, because there are children.

    Unless, of course, she gets a restraining order. In this scenario, there is plenty of proof that he is harassing her (text messages alone would do that). In reality, though, the abuser is usually smarter than that, and there is little to no proof. Either way, she can insist on a third-party drop-off for the children, and cut herself off from as many people who believe him as possible. This is not punishment: it is survival. Also realistically, most priesthood leadership believe the abuser. She is atypically fortunate that her bishop can see through it. In many cases, it is the woman who stands to lose her temple recommend if she dares to tell the truth about what has happened to her. For this reason alone, it is important to seal one’s lips and turn the other cheek.

    Legal repercussions can also be brutal for a woman who dares to voice concerns about her abuser. The reality is that most men who abuse women also abuse their children. Abusing their wives in itself is a form of child abuse, but there is no reason why a man with self-esteem necessitating abuse of their partner would not also abuse their children when it suits their purpose. Unfortunately, most people insist on separating the two.

    For those that do not utter a negative word to anyone, congratulations. In my experience, having a few close friends and/or family who know the entire story has been vital to maintaining my sanity. Someone who has not been emotionally abused has no way to know what it is like to believe another person’s perspective before your own. I have been careful not to run him down needlessly, but I have learned that it is essential to report facts as they happen to a few trustworthy people. That way, they can get you back on track when you begin to doubt the realities of what you have gone through.

  31. Here is what I would do. I would go on the offensive or move.

    1. Go to court on the child support and win.
    2. Go to the SP and Bishop with #1 in hand

    Based on my exp in the church the leadership at this point with #1 in hand will act accordingly. PH leaders have seen this type of stuff before. Failure to pay child support is the lowest of the low and PH leaders have no respect for men that do not pay child support. His friends in high places will quickly turn away from him.

  32. I like #30.

    Regarding #18, it is an interesting story, but the continual emphasis in the news on “bible weapons” is silly. This is not Colt, Armalite, Noveske, DPMS, DSA, Bushmaster, or any of the other M4 manufacturers. It is Trijicon. They don’t make weapons. They make sights and scopes (and the best ones at that. :-) ).

  33. Suppose you know someone in that situation minus the divorce, who refuses to stand up for themselves and their children and get the hell out. Suppose their bishop already suspected something and now has been informed by 3rd parties but refuses to do anything until said victim comes to him. Suppose the victim can’t come to him because of the controlling nature and fear of the spouse.

  34. TA,
    And what is their bishop supposed to do? Seriously, you’re attributing a lot of power to the bishop. I mean, he can ask the victim and/or the abuser to come speak with him. He can not issue callings, he can release the abuser, he can not renew the temple recommend. Hell, he could probably get the most annoying HTers in the ward assigned to the guy. But beyond these kinds of passive measures, it’s not like he has any power. In that way, he’s kind of like the Democratic majority in Congress.

  35. I’ve seen some ugly fallout from situations like this. The wife was raped by her husband and told to not break up the family. When she finally left the abusive relationship she pretty much had no choice but to leave the Church too cause the members took her husbands side. She never went on the offensive and really it was already too late anyway. Not to say it only goes that way, though no abuse was involved I know of a brother pushed from the Church when the marriage just wasn’t working and a divorce happened and the members all took her side.

    Then I’ve seen the other side of the coin with a ward that has a handful of divorced couples who remarried within the ward and everyone keeps coming to church on Sunday.

  36. I believe that going on the offensive may sound good, but can be spiritually and emotionally unhealthy for the wife and kids. She should move, if she can. If she can’t, she does need to counsel closely with her bishop and explain the facts and what evidence she has. Get professional counseling as well. She should honestly answer questions that are asked by others, but not go on a campaign to get revenge. I’d give the same advice if the abuser was the wife, and the husband had to divorce and leave with the kids (if he could get them).

    I’ve known of a couple of situations like this, and unfortunately had to be involved peripherally. Getting even and taking revenge, if that is what is meant by going on the offensive, rarely helps. Don’t take any crap, but don’t dish it out, either.

    A big part of the problem is that in LDS culture, we always want to think the best of others, especially those who are in leadership positions, and visible in the community.

    I’m a firm believer that “The best revenge is living well.” Move on, do well, give service, and don’t take the bait of the manipulative ex-spouse.

  37. Sorry for the threadjack, but re the woman’s alleged focus on socializing:

    I can’t imagine a single parent NOT being desperate for time away from her children. Even in a two-parent household where the couple are sharing childcare duties, child-free time is a very precious, desirable thing.

    I was just thinking of my dad’s wife, who divorced her first husband when her kids were young and had to work 2-3 jobs because her ex didn’t/wouldn’t pay child support, and he also wouldn’t take the kids when it was his turn. She couldn’t afford babysitters. She made plans to go away for a weekend when he was supposed to have their boys–her first break from work and parenting in God knew how long–and he canceled at the last minute. She says she just sat in her bathtub and cried. She thought, “I just want the chance to miss them [her kids].” I’ve never been in that situation and yet I can totally relate. Family life is exhausting, even when you aren’t running the show by yourself. I can’t understand why a single mother wouldn’t be seeking adult interaction, even to the point of obsessing over it. It IS that important.

    Okay, enough about that. As for the rest, yes, she should totally go on the offensive. Normally I’m all about being passive and walked all over, but that’s not going to cut it in this case. She needs to defend herself.

    (Not feeling very cheek-turny today.)

  38. I was just thinking of my dad’s wife, who divorced her first husband when her kids were young and had to work 2-3 jobs because her ex didn’t/wouldn’t pay child support, and he also wouldn’t take the kids when it was his turn. She couldn’t afford babysitters. She made plans to go away for a weekend when he was supposed to have their boys–her first break from work and parenting in God knew how long–and he canceled at the last minute. She says she just sat in her bathtub and cried. She thought, “I just want the chance to miss them [her kids].” I’ve never been in that situation and yet I can totally relate. Family life is exhausting, even when you aren’t running the show by yourself. I can’t understand why a single mother wouldn’t be seeking adult interaction, even to the point of obsessing over it. It IS that important.

    Yes–that’s essentially what I was trying to describe about this “hypothetical” situation.

  39. TA (32), I’m not sure what the bishop is supposed to do, either. I feel like you are describing someone I know very well, and the Bishop has taken away the callings, the TR, but that doesn’t end the abuse.

    Why doesn’t the wife take the kids and get the hell out? Fear, no money, no job, no education, being told she’s worthless for so many years that she believes it to be true, believes that she doesn’t deserve any better than what she is living with now…

  40. I wondered if you were writing about a close friend of mine. Then I realized it could be a couple of people I knew, then a couple more . . .

    I would echo #30. And/or move.

  41. One thing that I think is easily overlooked is that the father’s time with the kids is a type of child support. Caring for children has value- we pay people to do it, and when we do it ourselves it costs in lost time, and other incidental costs (food, power for the TV, etc). Visitation with the non-custodial parent (even for just a few hours) is a way for that parent to pay child support in kind.
    Failure to take the kids when scheduled is monetarily just as bad as missing a check, yet far more emotionally draining and hurtful. I would have more respect for a father who makes every scheduled visit even if he misses a check or two, rather than the one who sends every check and misses most of his visits. I think that non-custodial parents should be fined for missed visits.

  42. Ithink going on the “offensive,” whatever that means, may not solve anything, but may make it worse. We had the Church turn against us in a small town many years ago, and the only real solution for us was to move. Not that I harbor grudges, but I still check the local paper online nearly every day, since there are several obituaries I am looking forward to reading.

  43. Go on the offensive, but only in regards to preserving your reputation. And you share the appropriate parts with Church leaders, and business leaders, etc.

    Unfortunately, she probably need to move, going on the offensive or otherwise…

    (I know a bishop who was once hounded by the SP of the ex-husband of a woman in his ward, trying to get my friend to convince the sister in his ward to drop her child support payment demands so that the ex can go to the temple.)

  44. I applaud her efforts to turn the other cheek, but there comes a time when calmly defending yourself, both to the community and the ex-spouse, is necessary. It would be difficult to stand up to the spouse after years of abuse, of course, but she has a right to have her side known if he’s made it public.

    With the abuse slightly scaled down, this is pretty much my parents, too. And the bonus of the EQP showing up at our house, yelling and demanding my mother forgive and repent.

  45. Yes, go after him.

  46. StillConfused says:

    Someone spreading rumors etc does NOT prevent you from getting on with your life. Your obsession with what your ex thinks about you is what prevents you from getting on in your life. As someone in the legal industry, people talking shmack about others is common. If it is truly actionable, get a court order to stop it. If not, stop caring. It really is that easy.

  47. The line between gossip and fact is very blurry. But if it were me, and it has been with my parents, I share my side but without emotion.

    If someone asks you can say, “He was abusive.” Without getting into all the gory details. You can say, “He doesn’t pay child support.” Those are facts. And sometimes in our efforts at being positive, we absolve people of some of the consequences of their actions.

    An abuser should be shunned from the community. You don’t have to make that your goal, but you shouldn’t feel guilty for stating the facts as they are.

  48. Rebecca and Scott–RE: the need to socialize

    I really don’t want to tear down the victim and I know the old “if I can do it, you can do it” is a pretty hollow argument, but I am essentially living this lady’s life in respect to childcare. I drive 10 minutes to and from work and that is the only time I am not at work or in charge of the kids. When they are in bed, I am at home because they are too young to be left. Their dad moved out 18 months ago, before our youngest was born. I am on my own.

    Maybe it has been too short a time, but I am surviving with no social life (even my work is pretty isolating). I get to the occasional Enrichment meeting with childcare but my youngest isn’t even nursery age, so other than that, it is all me all the time. While I am envious of other’s relatively carefree lives (and abilities to see movies) (and abilities to pay bills without worrying about the bank balance), this is my life right now. In a few years, I will be able to leave the kids alone, and I look forward to it.

    Obviously, I don’t know about this sister’s kids but a few things I would suggest are: joining the YMCA (or some such) and using their child care, which is free with membership–sure it means you have to stay in the building, but you can swim, use the reading room, sauna, etc etc. Find a local “kids night out” and use it–cheaper than babysitting, but the same effect. See if there is a Mommy co-op around. Trade babysitting with siblings, neighbors, or ward members. Actually take HTers and VTers up on the “what can we do?” and ask them to babysit. Sign the kids up for lessons of some sort (lots of places have sliding scales/subsidies for lower income participants) and sit on the sidelines and read your book–at least you are not in charge. I should take my own advice.

    I put my kids to bed early. There–it’s out. Bedtime honeys! Mama needs a break.

    Anyhoo–what I am saying is that, in the years to come, she will not be hostage to her capricious ex. But I bet she can make it through the next few years pretty well, even without dates, per se.

    Starfoxy makes a good point that childcare is support of a kind. There are some spouses, however, who would like to be paid for their time “watching” the kids if they are not the custodial parent. So feeding that mentality can cause trouble.

  49. From prayer and personal experience similar to the example I don’t think its ever okay to go on the offensive. At a certain point you may need to use the law and the church’s discipline system to protect yourself and your rights. But even then it must be done without malice.

    I wish #4 hadn’t posted anonymously as I would have liked to see their blog or any other offerings he or she had on the subject.

    Thanks for the interesting post Scott.

  50. How about going on the defensive?

    There’s a big difference between revenge and self-protection.

  51. I agree with 50. Demanding that child-support be paid (through legal action) is not going on the offensive. That money belongs to the hypothetical mother and her children. Most women in that situation could really use the money- babysitting, for example, might be more affordable if child support is helping to pay for it. Also, I think the YMCA membership was a great idea. At least at my local Y, the childcare is superb, the facilities are clean and relaxing, and the kids and parents can both really enjoy a few hours apart.

  52. ESO (#48), wow! Your matter-of-factness about what sounds like a very difficult situation is admirable.

  53. Ziff–or maybe denial. I certainly have my pity-me moments, but for the most part, my focus is on my kids and not being a totally wash-out of a mother. Having the kids is worth it all.

  54. 1 – use the legal process
    a. child support
    b. restraining order

    2 – find a friend (mom?) to talk things out candidly

    3 – ask for occasional help from HT, VT, neighbors, parents of children’s friends, etc.

    4 – defend yourself as necessary, but don’t continue to make him the focus of your life

  55. ESO (48) – I’m pretty sure she can make it through the next few years without dates, too – but without any adult socializing, that’s what I had my doubts about. I mean, I’m the most introverted and anti-social person I know, and even I start to get wiggy after a few weeks with just me & the kids. (Of course, I’m also the wiggiest person I know, so maybe that’s part of the problem, too.) I think the key is not isolating yourself – my stepmother was pretty isolated, and that seems to be this woman’s problem, too, being that her ex has turned most of her community against her. I’m glad you are surviving your situation well–or as well as you can, as difficult as it is. God bless you (and good luck ;) ).

  56. A bishop does NOT have to meet with a person in order to cancel their temple recommend. With the new bar coded recommends it is a very simply process to cancel the recommend.

    Failure to pay child support is a valid reason to deny a temple recommend (the question about being current in your obligations to a former spouse or children…).

    Sadly, these situations do occur, but I have got to say – there is always two sides to a story**. Sometimes the opposing view holds little value, but it’s a good idea to at least hear it. If the husband would refuse to visit the bishop I would simply cancel his recommend – that is acceptable.

    **I recently had a sister tell me more horrible stories of her ex-husband (who is still in the ward). This time, it was more abuse and had graduated to sexual abuse. After pressing her for some time (and really frustrating her) the abuse turns out to be nothing more than what most of us do at home – i.e, swats on the behind, the occasional shout etc… This sister feels that ANY physical contact with the intention of discipline is physical abuse. The sexual abuse turned out to be the father tickling the 12 year old daughter and a possible “brush” against her breast. The mother was watching like a hawk and assumed it was the ex trying to cop a feel. The daughter was completely puzzled and then grossed out when it was brought to her attention. Admittedly, this story is the exception. From experience, it is usually a rotten husband/father.

  57. I think you need to get an order of protection against him so he stops following you and harrassing you, and also charge him for slander.

    I think your bishop needs to publically counsel the ward on butting out of other people’s business, too.

  58. InTheKNow says:

    The new stake pres in the husband’s stake is fully aware of the situation and ready to act. Just FYI. Everybody I know is on the wife’s side. No need to go into the offensive, he’ll get his punishment soon enough. Although I personally do wish they still had that beautiful ritual called stoning.

  59. InTheKNow says:

    The new stake pres in the husband’s stake is fully aware of the situation and ready to act. Just FYI. Everybody I know is on the wife’s side. No need to go into the offensive, he’ll get his punishment soon enough. Although I personally do wish they still had that beautiful ritual called stoning. :P

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