Sunday AM General Conference: The Gordon Jump Memorial Session

Welcome to By Common Consent’s live coverage of the Sunday Morning session of the 181st Semi-Annual General Conference! Don’t forget to check out our minute-by-minute coverage on Twitter in addition to coverage on the blog. We also encourage you to (if you’re not already doing so) watch Conference live, streaming from

Alrighty…had some problems with my Interwebs this morning, but we are finally up and running now.

I had a Ziplock baggie full of Reese’s Puffs for breakfast today. How about you?
President Henry B. Eyring: Our Charge

Regarding the baptismal covenant as described in Mosiah 18:9,

“That is a lofty charge and a glorious promise from God…First we have promised to become charitable. Second, we promised to become witnesses of God. And third we promised to endure. The Book of Mormon is the best guide to learn how well we are doing and how to do better.”

(really having a lousy web connection here, and just lost a bunch of updates.)

I love President Eyring. What a beautiful talk.
Elder Robert D. Hales: Thy Will Be Done
(btw, those are oxygen tubes that you’re seeing on Elder Hales…)

I like this introduction–explaining how the Savior gave an example in the pre-mortal life, in his youth, during his ministry, and into his final moments of mortality, of “Thy will be done.”

“I have often pondered, why is it that the Son of God and His holy prophets and all the faithful Saints have trials and tribulations, even when they are trying to do Heavenly Father’s will? Why is it so hard, especially for them?”

“I think of our pioneer forebears, driven from Nauvoo and crossing the plains–exercising their agency to follow a prophet even as they suffered…Why such terrible tribulation? To what end? For what purpose?”

“Won’t all of us, sometime, have a reason to ask, ‘Oh God, where art though?’ YES! “When a spouse dies, a companion will wonder. When financial hardship befalls a family, a father will ask. When children wander from the path, a mother and father will cry out in sorrow…Then, in the dawn of our increased faith and understanding, we arise and choose to wait upon the Lord, saying, ‘Thy will be done.’”

Elder Hales’ clear emotion is really coming through in this talk. Some beautiful statements of empathy and understanding here.

Sez Elder Hales:
Waiting upon the Lord means…
1. Planting the seed of faith and nourishing it
2. Praying as the Savior did
3. Pondering in our hearts and receiving the Holy Ghost
4. Standing fast and pressing forward
5. Relying alone upon the merits of Christ

One last quote from Elder Hales:

“Every one of us is more beloved to the Lord than we can possibly understand or imagine. Let us therefore be kinder to one another and kinder toward ourselves.”

Elder Tad R. Callister – The Book of Mormon: A Book From God

“That is the genius of the Book fo Mormon–there is no middle ground. It is either th eword of God as professed, or it is a total fraud. This book does not merely claim to be a moral treatise, or commentary, or collection of insightful writings. It claims to be the word of God–every setnence, every verse, every page.”

Elder Callister quotes C.S. Lewis from Mere Christianity–one of my favorite passages:

I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to. – Mere Christianity, pages 40-41.

“…one incorrect doctrine such as [cessation of revelation] is like a domino set in motion that causes the fall of other dominoes in this case the fall of correct doctrines.”

Attention Harpers: You can’t say you’ve done research into the Church if you haven’t read the Book of Mormon!

Young Women’s President Elaine S. Dalton: LOVE HER MOTHER

“How can a father raise a happy, well-adjusted daughter in today’s increasingly toxic world?…’The most important thing a father can do for his [daughter] is to love [her] mother.”

(Here we go…)

“Today’s popular culture tries to erode and demean your eternal role as a patriarch and father and minimize your most important responsibilities. These have been given to you “by divine design” and as fathers you are “to preside over [your] families in love and righteousness and are responsibile to provide the necessities of life and protection for your families.”

(…getting close now…)

“Fathers, you must be the guardians of virtue.”


“You are not ordinary men. Because of your valiance in the premortal realms, you qualified to be leaders and to possess priesthood power. There you exhibited “exceeding faith and good works” and you are here now to do the same. Your priesthood sets you apart.”

Grr. Argh.

Elder M. Russell Ballard of the 12 – The Importance of a Name

“We take the name of Christ upon us in the waters of baptism. We renew the effect of that baptism each week as we partake of the sacrament, signifying our willingness to take His name upon us and promising to remember Him. Do we realize how blessed we are to take upon us the name of God’s beloved and only begotten son? Do we understand how significant that is? The Savior’s name is the only name under heaven by which man can be saved.”

Love it–excellent food for thought here.

“I echo the revelations from the scriptures, the 1st Presidency’s instructions in letters of 1982 and 2001, and the words of other apostles who have encouraged [us] to teach the world that the Church is known by the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.”

“I have thought a lot about why the Savior gave he nine-word name to His restored Church. It may seem long, but if we think of it as a descriptive overview of what the Church is, it suddenly becomes wonderfully brief, candid, and straight forward. How could any description be more direct and clear and yet expressed in such few words?”

This is interesting–also the way he referred to President Packer’s recent address eschewing the term “Mormon Church.” I have written a bit recently about our seeming preference for waffles on this particular issue. Steve Evans also wrote about this just this week.

I’m going to have to re-read this talk later, because right now it seems incredibly confusing to me in light of the I’m a Mormon campaign.
President Thomas S. Monson, President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints:

“We love you, Bob!” (referring to Robert D. Hales, who just spoke, despite poor health)


“…evolving at a rapid rate is the moral compass of society.”

Here is the article that Jonathan Sacks wrote for the WSJ, in response to the London Riots:

Sez Sacks:

“We have been spending our moral capital with the same reckless abandon that we have been spending our financial capital. Freud was right. The precondition of civilization is the ability to defer the gratification of instinct. And even Freud, who disliked religion and called it the “obsessional neurosis” of humankind, realized that it was the Judeo-Christian ethic that trained people to control their appetites.

There are large parts of Britain, Europe and even the United States where religion is a thing of the past and there is no counter-voice to the culture of buy it, spend it, wear it, flaunt it, because you’re worth it. The message is that morality is passé, conscience is for wimps, and the single overriding command is “Thou shalt not be found out.””

“Our code of conduct is definitive; it is not negotiable. It is found not only in the Ten Commandments but also in the Sermon on the Mount, given to us by the Savior when He walked upon the earth. It is found throughout His teachings. It is found in the words of modern prophets.”

“I declare to you…that there is nothing which can bring more joy into our lives or more peace to our souls than the spirit which can come to us as we follow the Savior and keep the commandments….The term ‘natural man’ can refer to any of us if we allow ourselves to be so. We must be vigilant in a world which has moved so far from that which is spiritual.”

Sometimes I really hope for big pronouncements or declarations of new ideas from the Prophet, but when I hear a talk like this one, it just feels right for one in President Monson’s position: teaching us to follow the Savior, keep the commandments, and strive to live better.



“Not a day has gone by that I have not communicated with my Father in Heaven through prayer. It is a relationship I cherish–one I would literally be lost without. If you do not now have such a relationship with your Father in Heaven, I urge you to work toward that goal.”

President Monson is a great storyteller today, as if often the case in his sermons. Really playing with the audience through his great facil expressions, calculated pauses, and tonal changes. Great stuff.

Last quote of the session:

“My beloved brothers and sisters, communications with our Father in Heaven–including our prayers to Him and His inspiration to us–is necessary in order for us to weather the storms and trials of life.”


MoTab sends us out with I believe in Christ.

See you all back in an hour or so!


  1. Well, it’s 7:40 AM here in Alaska. The choir is singing. The kiddies are stirring, and the biscuits are in the oven.

    After this mornings session, we will be enjoying Belgian Waffles!!!

    And the candy bowl word of the session has not yet been established.

  2. The pink drapes on the choir ladies just aren’t working for me today. But I certainly enjoy hearing the choir each morning. I will certainly miss them when I cancel my choir this week.

  3. It’s 11:45 in the Motor City, just polished of a bowl of Marshallow Mateys, and need prompting as to the word of this session – my candy bowl overfloweth.

  4. Sharee Hughes says:

    Joe, I agree. The choir ladies could use a new fashion consultant. I don’t know who selects their dresses, but they don’t have much taste. It’s not so much the polyester I disgree with–I realize there are budget constraints–but the styles are not very pleasing. So just listen and don’t watch.

  5. 9:49 PM in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan. I’ll stick around for a few talks before bed. Last night we had the bad luck of quitting just before President Monson made his appearance.

  6. Observer fka eric s says:

    Pink in the fall?

  7. AnnieinKC says:

    10:51 in Kansas City–where everything is up to date!

  8. Indulging in a moment of CofC envy–they have this hymn (DIADEM) in their hymnal. It’s sooooo great.

  9. Amira–Ususally on Sunday morning, President Monson opens the session, so hopefully you will get to catch him before you nod off.

  10. Joe, I think he usually closes on Sunday morning, which was why I was counting on him opening as usual on Saturday morning. But it will all work out in the download.

  11. coachodeeps says:

    Here it comes! I love Conference!

  12. My sister dated the organist Andrew Unsworth. Used to go to Salt Lake City and practice in the Tabernacle with him.

  13. The pink washes them out. And one of the male choir members they focused on looks like Ron Paul.

  14. Amira–He usually opens Sunday Morning, and closes Saturday afternoon. We will see.

    Anyone know when the last time is conference went by without hearing the choir sing Consider the Lillies?

  15. A sea of pepto bismol…

  16. Ah, give the poor women a break! Maybe they should just wrap them in boring Protestant-style black choir robes every time so you’d all run out of wisecracks!

  17. Normally, the direct object of the verb “feel” takes no preposition. You feel something. You don’t feel at/by/for something. So when did we start feeling OF something e.g. “feel of thy love” or “feel of thy spirit”? Is it a partitive? I really don’t know.

  18. Do you think that sometimes the person offering the benediction gets shortchanged on their time to pray because the person offering the invocation prayed for too long?

  19. Joe, whenever it was, it wasn’t recently enough.

  20. My wife’s comment: I’m not sure if he was praying to God or to us.

  21. Ardis–I’m sure we’d have some wisecracks if they were in black robes.

  22. One of my all-time favoritest hymns!

  23. Latter-day Guy says:

    Ardis, I’d totally go for choir robes… particularly if Sister Gladys got involved and hipped up the repertoire a bit.

  24. Ebenezer Robinson says:

    My mother used to comment about conference prayers that “he wishes he’d been called on to speak”.

  25. I actually wouldn’t mind some old fashioned choir robes with the sash over the shoulders. For everyone.

  26. I bet a dollar that Eyring chokes up.

  27. coachodeeps says:

    My Borther-in-law asked if the Q12 members that are not there are in Israel and should he start repenting.

  28. You guys just do – not – get the logistics and challenge of dressing a choir.

    Singing voices do not always accompany women who meet up with society’s fashion-sense. You get different body types, and you have to find something that looks good on ALL body types.

    It’s not easy.

    Get over it guys.

  29. The candy bowl word of the session is BLESSINGS. First payoff came from Pres. Uchtdorf complimenting the choir.

  30. Right. Women’s bodies are the source of all evil. Seth–if the women had one standard uniform as the men do, it would cease to be a problem.

  31. Seth, hence the appeal of some good old-fashioned Baptist-y choir robes! No one can say those choirs don’t have women and men of differing size.

  32. So now, we have Mosiah 2:15 and 1 Timothy 4:12 tied at 3 times quoted each this conference. Think there will be a tiebreaker?

  33. OK, my “washed out” comment came from my color theorist-background wife. I don’t honestly care. All she commented about is the *color*, not the styles…

  34. There it is narrator — your choke up!!

  35. coachodeeps says:

    Choked up…

  36. I made raised potato doughnuts for my Idaho born father- it is a good morning in Texas. And I agree the dresses are drapes.

  37. If everyone, men and women, wore a choir robe, this wouldn’t be an issue.

  38. I made raised potato doughnuts for my Idaho born father- it is a good morning in Texas. And I agree the dresses are drapes.

  39. Kristine, are you being hostile here?

    If so, I couldn’t care less.

    If you’d read my comment carefully, you would note I never endorsed any of these societal expectations on women. I merely noted their existence. And if you don’t like being reminded of the way the messed-up world is, well, that’s just too darn bad.

  40. Multiple choke-ups.

  41. I’ll accept payments in Amazon credit.

  42. Coming in a bit late (we had some issues with the internet, and evil me is answering email while i’m listening), but i see that i’m not the only one up early in Alaska for this.

  43. homemade cinnamon rolls here, yum!

  44. Tracy, I believe that is exactly why those churches use those choir uniforms.

  45. On an interesting note, the Salt Lake Tribune is reporting that the reason President Monson was late yesterday was “a delay en route”. I assume that means traffic.

  46. I haven’t eaten anything yet other than peach pie filling – one full size is baked, 6 miniatures are in the oven. Huzzah!

    The pink was terrible but Eyring is teaching me to do them a service and not bring it up.

  47. Traffic? He has a residence 2 blocks from the Conference Center.

  48. Strawberry banana waffles took longer than expected. Going back and forth making brekkie and listening to Pres. Eyring. Maybe we should move the computers to the living room–we’d be closer to the kitchen!

  49. So yesterday, Kristine had to delete the black people flame war. Today, the women flame war will be the casualty?

  50. Interesting reference to an interview with the Savior. I believe that theme goes back to a conversation President McKay had with a parking lot attendant. Not a firm doctrinal base there.

  51. why do today’s prophets think they are in the same shoes as Abinadi? And that the people they might speak to or testify to would suddenly grab their pitchforks and take them to a pole, tie them up, and burn them to the ground? Seriously. I think President Eyring needs to denounce his audience as sinful interlopers to even come close to a comparison to Abinadi.

  52. DAVID B — What part of Alaska are you in?

  53. 47: He has an apartment available to him there, Bonjo, but he and his wife continue to live in their long-time home elsewhere in the valley.

  54. Cmon Dan, it was humor. Let’s hear something positive out of you for once.

  55. BEN — Pres. McKay’s reported conversation occurred, I believe, with a groundskeeper/maintenance man.

  56. I think Pres. Eyring was talking more about the idea of having just about everyone rejecting his message, and less about being burned at a stake.

  57. I’m watching in bed with a fever and the flu. All this food talk is making me crazy because I can’t make anything!!!

  58. President Eyring is a beautiful human being. I love him.

  59. @Joe: Midtown Anchorage.

    @Daniel Dubei: What *i* was wondering is what kind of university invites a religious leader to speak without thinking that that religious leader might talk religion a little bit.

  60. Wow. Elder hales has put on some serious weight and seems to be haveing some health issues since last conference. Anyone know what’s going on with him?

  61. observer fka eric s says:

    What the heck happened to Robert D. Hales? He looks like Gorbachiev now.

  62. Yeah, he’s aged a lot in a year.

  63. Is the black microphone in front of Elder Hales a prop? Isn’t the actual mike that white bit on his right cheek, or is that something else?

  64. something positive….Henry B Eyring brought the spirit with him when he spoke at a stake conference in November 1994 in California, and the spirit he brought told me to go on a mission NOW. Three months later, I was in Romania, on a mission. So there. Something positive. :D

  65. David B.,

    @Daniel Dubei: What *i* was wondering is what kind of university invites a religious leader to speak without thinking that that religious leader might talk religion a little bit.

    I agree. I was wondering about that too. I must have missed him mentioning which university that was.

  66. observer fka eric s says:

    (63) I think the mic off his ear/cheek is the prop.

  67. The one on his cheek is an amplifier if some kind. The one in front of him is the actual mic.

  68. #59, love it!

  69. I would imagine it’s a backup in case the active mic quits

  70. It looks like the side effect of chronic steroid use. I don’t know his ailment though. Think of what Jerry Lewis looked like before he died.

  71. Elder Hales has had a couple heart attacks coupled with multiple surgeries. But, that was years ago. Clearly, something else is going on.

  72. Anyone else thinking he’s on some treatment of sorts that’s made him bloaty? :( I love Hales, poor guy.

  73. Jerry Lewis is still alive

  74. By the way Kristine, written words often do not convey full meaning. So I’m sorry if I misread yours in that earlier comment.

    Moving on to the conference, then…

  75. I believe Jerry Lewis is still alive.

  76. I don’t think he said the name of the university. Anyone know?

  77. 76 — Probably Notre Dame, or SMU.

  78. According to, the only commencement speeches Eyring has given were at Ricks/BYU-I. If this is the case, that entire story is quite bizarre.

  79. Pres. Eyring didn’t name the university—i’m in the education sector, i was listening for it. (Actually, at first i thought it was a high school, and it was only later he said it was university-level.)

  80. Ron Madson says:

    #51, exactly. A modern day Sons of Mosiah would be a part of a CPT (Christian Peacekeeping Team) working in hostile Afghan or Pakistani territory. A modern day Abinadi/Samuel Lamanite would be denouncing to a group of priesthood holders their specific sins–such as support of wars of aggression and/or taking the widow’s mite, filling their granaries and letting very little returned to direct relief—and instead building pleasure palaces with the funds. Personally, I would never consider my testifying of Jesus to non-believers an act of much courage comparable to those found in the BOM, NT and early christianity–well I might couch it that way if I were inured to sentimentalism and being a drama queen.

  81. observer fka eric s says:

    I actually heard Jerry Lewis will speak in the afternoon session. This is a great message.

  82. AnnieinKC says:

    The weird part of the University commencement invitation experience is that President Monson was invited first and could not attend–so the invitation was extended to President Eyring as a back up.
    What did the institution think that President Monson’s responsibilities were??
    That said, it sound like the person who was handling the details was being overly cautious, perhaps in response to some flak from faculty, upset that a religious leader had been invited in the first place. I doubt that the University President would have handled it this way.

  83. This talk really touches me, I don’t want to wonder this, but might this be his last GC talk? He is such a gentle man.

  84. Do any of you fine folk know a stream that will work on a playstation? Thanks in advance.

  85. Alex, did he say it was a commencement speech?

  86. They just hit the candy bowl BLESSINGS jackpot. All but 1 missed the first 1, but lucky for all of them, he repeated it 2 more times right after.

  87. Loving this talk of Elder Hales. It was for me. Thanks to the rest of you for listening, too. Multiple choke up moments for ME during this one. I wouldn’t dare count choke up moments of men I regard as apostles. Elder Eyring’s talk was magnificent.

  88. Apparently the university could’ve been ASU:

    FYI there is this amazing website called Google…

  89. #85: Whatever it was, it was associated with a graduation.

  90. Ebenezer Robinson says:

    @AnnieinKC, I think he said Hinckley, not Monson.

  91. The mic on his cheek is a head mic and is the primary source for picking up sound. The mic in front is likely a backup. I surmise they use the headmic because you cannot project as much sitting down and with health conditions their voices may be weak. This way they can make sure we an hear him and, if the wireless head mic gets interference, they can use the front mic as a fallback.

  92. it’s just a strange story, building on the mythology that Christians are constantly under persecution.

  93. By far my favorite Hales talk I’ve heard.

  94. I did Google, and saw Didn’t know how accurate it was. A non-LDS school would make more sense, though.

  95. Oxygen tubes going into Elder Hales’ nose. Benefit of viewing in HD.

  96. Unless that was his dad at ASU….my bad.

  97. Beautiful talk.

  98. observer fka eric s says:

    Excellent message.

  99. 92 – I’m quite sure you’re mistaking humor for a story of persecution. It’s an easy mistake if you’re not familiar with humor.

  100. Cynthia L. says:

    Loved Hales’ talk.

    Our family had my special recipe smoothies and cinnnamon rolls (Pillsbury, sigh, perfect mom FAIL).

  101. B. Russ, because clearly we can’t talk about persecution without the use of humor…

  102. This talk began without reason and continues to grow ever unreasonable.

  103. #92: Give it up, it was pretty clearly a laugh line—he’d talked about canonical stories of people being bold in preaching, and referred to the one with the worst-sounding end. The audience laughed, because the hyperbolic humor was successful.

  104. It was his Dad. And Elder Eyring was not the “junior apostle” in 1978

  105. @77 – It’s be a cold day in Dubai before a Mormon leader would be invited to speak at SMU.

  106. Nice use of graphics!!!

  107. Ah, Geometry!

  108. Daniel – Drawing inspiration from the story of Abinidi =/= likening oneself to Abinidi. You’re trying to see a story about persecution that just wasn’t there. I agree, it’s annoying when Christians, the single largest religious demographic in the world, act like they are persecuted. However, that isn’t the point that I heard in Eyring’s talk, and I think it would be hard to hear that point unless you were trying to hear that point.

  109. AnnieinKC says:

    #88, ASU 1978 President Eyring’s dad.

  110. The elementary school teacher in me wants to know if tangents count as lines crossing through both points; chords also.

  111. Yossarian says:

    The logic of this talk is dizzying.

  112. B RUss — I’m not sure that there’s more Christians than there are Buddhists, or terrorists, I mean Muslims.

  113. What’s the deal with saying having the Bible and Book of Mormon both means you only get one interpretation? That conveniently ignores the existence of, say, the Community of Christ, or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite), or others—not to mention doctrinal disagreements (caffeine, anyone?) among members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-days Saints themselves.

  114. Did he just use a Vonnegut illustration?

  115. That analogy only works in non-Eculidian space.

  116. I’m not in love with conference talk appeals to logic.

  117. Narrator — brief explanation if you please?

  118. Sharee Hughes says:

    I agree, Margaret. I choke up from time to time during conference myself. And I am touched when men are not afraid to show their feelings. President Eyring’s talk really moved me.

  119. “terrorists, I mean Muslims”???

    What the fr’deeking crap is wrong with you?

  120. Joe – I am

  121. Continuous revelation eh? What about the apostasy?

    I don’t think simplistic approaches to complex questions ultimately serve the purposes of the Church or the Gospel.

  122. 113 — I wish that everyone that declares Coca Cola to be against the word of wisdom would stop eating Hershey Bars.

  123. Don’t really follow the logic of the “Liar, Lunatic, Lord” argument often made for Christ’s divinity. It’s quite possible He was a great moral teacher, who *others* built into a Messiah over time as the myth grew stronger and took on a life of its own. Not my belief, of course, but I have issues with aversions to poor logic like this, b/c they feel like parlor tricks that sidestep the reality that our ability to discern eternal truth is quite limited in many ways (as it’s supposed to be).

  124. #119: Really?!? The internet has been hiccupping on me a bit—did he really say that, and i (mercifully) missed it?

  125. who is his great great grandfather? did i miss something?

  126. Joe – Christians make up ~ 2.1 Billion in the world. Worldwide population is just shy of 7 billion. Christianity by a large margin makes up the largest demographic. Second is Islam with ~ 1.5 billion.


  127. David – That was something that Joe said (112).

  128. #116: I like logic in general conference, myself—i’d just prefer valid logic.

  129. BiV – I think the story of his g-g-grandfather was Brigham Young, but I could most certainly be mistaken.

  130. That was a great example of black and white thinking. Uggg….

  131. 128 – I agree. See, something positive :D

  132. Does Pres. Monson sing along with the first verse?

  133. They should have switched to this song during yesterday morning’s session when President Monson finally showed up.

  134. Yossarian says:

    Is this blog of the devil or god. There is no middle ground

  135. “How can a father raise a happy, well-adjusted daughter?”

    Um… the same way he raises a happy, well-adjusted son?

  136. Suddenly thinking about a Lonely Island/Justin Timberlake song. . . .

  137. “settle for less”

    What does that mean?

  138. anon this time says:

    So if I don’t believe that the BoM is history and was praying to know if there is a place for me in the church it looks like I just got an pretty clear answer.

  139. B RUss — Thanks for the numbers.

  140. I’m the father of daughters, no sons, and in my experience mentions of father-daughter relationships don’t get mentioned as much as the other three parent-child relationships in general or local addresses.

  141. Does being a Guardian of Virtue require owning an AR-15?

  142. Whew – the guys are the guardians of virtue. I can relax a little!

  143. Fathers are now the guardians of virtue, not the Young Women. Now if they’ll just include the Young Men in this guardianship.

  144. My wife: “Does she know she’s not talking at priesthood meeting?”
    My son: “It would cause a disturbance in the Mormon force.”

  145. I’m not a fan of the meme that we need to shut out the influences of the world on the grounds that some of them are evil—why do we have to ignore the fact that there’s a lot of good influences out there, too?

  146. This idea makes me angry. I mean, I understand the general theory, but it doesn’t hold up and again makes women/girls into objects. Women are not perfect beings setting upon pedestals, waiting for a perfect man. We get in the trenches together and work towards the lives we want- its the way of having a life worth living. Women are not shiny apples to be plucked by a worthy priesthood leader. It again makes her something acted-upon instead of equally fallen and fallible with men.

  147. AnnieinKC says:
    Growth rates of world religions,

  148. Prob. hope not to interview my daughter, ideally I would just have conversations.

  149. Anon this time. Elder Holland outranks random 70 guy.

    “… If someone can find something in the Book of Mormon, anything that they love or respond to or find dear, I applaud that and say more power to you. That’s what I find, too. And that should not in any way discount somebody’s liking a passage here or a passage there or the whole idea of the book, but not agreeing to its origin, its divinity. …

    I think you’d be as aware as I am that that we have many people who are members of the church who do not have some burning conviction as to its origins, who have some other feeling about it that is not as committed to foundational statements and the premises of Mormonism. But we’re not going to invite somebody out of the church over that any more than we would anything else about degrees of belief or steps of hope or steps of conviction. … We would say: “This is the way I see it, and this is the faith I have; this is the foundation on which I’m going forward. If I can help you work toward that I’d be glad to, but I don’t love you less; I don’t distance you more; I don’t say you’re unacceptable to me as a person or even as a Latter-day Saint if you can’t make that step or move to the beat of that drum.”

  150. As a matter of fact, daughters do NOT appreciate when fathers show up at a date and order her to go home.

    I know. From experience. My now-wife was VERY upset, and still brings it up with her father four years later!

  151. Was President Eyring referring to USC?

  152. Saturday’s Warrior!

  153. Why do general conference speakers get visual aids, but sacrament meeting speakers don’t?

  154. Man! I am so glad I am not a dating teenager anymore, because the threat of a father going looking in vain for his daughter to drag her home at night is unpleasant to me.

  155. @132: I would think he sings along with the whole hymn. “We Thank The O God For A Prophet” is a hymn about thanks more than anything else. Besides, I would think that Pres. Monson is also thankful that the Lord has called a Prophet and that He guides him.

  156. Amen, Tracy.

  157. Tracy @146: Applause.

  158. bhodges (148) – So, daughter, what makes you stand out above the other applicants for this position? mmmmhhhmmmm. . . .

    What would you say your greatest strengths and greatest weaknesses are?

    good answer. . . .

  159. #145- See Brigham Young on living in a bubble. (teaser: he opposed the idea.)

  160. as a father of a daughter, I’m not going to go around and search for her to bring her home. What worse message can I send to her than “I don’t trust you to be alone in this world with your peers.”

  161. #146: Like i wrote above, i’m a father of daughters—and i completely and utterly share your concerns about this address.

  162. Daniel, that would kind of depend on whether she was actually trustworthy, wouldn’t it?

  163. 138- I think there is a difference between “historical record” and “word of God”. Could be both, but not necessarily. I sure love the stories, though. (I do side with historical record, though.)

  164. Each child has a name that distinguishes him or her from everyone else. Except George Foreman’s kids.

  165. #132, 155: I remember reading a line from Gordon B. Hinckley in the Philadelphia Inquirer (back when i lived there) that he saw “We Thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet” as being about Joseph Smith, not the sitting prophet.

  166. how would you build that trust, Seth? By chasing her around town?

  167. Didn’t we hear, basically, the opposite of this last spring?

  168. David #165, that was my impression as well, that that hymn was about Joseph Smith, rather than current prophets.

  169. Daniel, I actually do trust my daughters, and do not expect this will be necessary. I’m just saying that “trust” isn’t a human right – though many teenagers seem to think it is.

  170. anon here says:

    Thanks Queno for you and your wife saying what I think. Has a similar talk ever been given by the ym pres to the mothers of sons? I usually love to hear her speak but as a single never married person in my 40s, it would have been nice to hear expansion of the idea of loving daughters of God BEYOND the love shown to those lucky enough to be married. For example honoring the priesthood by ht or other service. Plus a word to the women and daughters to make sure love is shown to their spouse.

  171. So what does Ballard’s talk say about the Church between 1834 and 1838 when it was the Church of Latter-day Saints?

  172. How is “the Mormon church” not also a specific identifier?

  173. It is important that we not refer to ourselves as “Mormon”. For more information about who we are, visit

  174. 173 – awesome.

  175. excuse me…. “Latter Day Saints.”

  176. observer fka eric s says:

    As daddy to two daughters, Elaine rocks!

  177. Do we get to count how many speakers talk about us being “Mormons” after this address? I counted several after the parallel address last April.

  178. The thing is, when we phrase it like this, we are assuming the woman is perfect and righteous, and the man is the one capable of being bad and fallen. It’s a false set-up, and it harms women as well as men. The woman is just as capable of being unrighteous, especially when she has taken upon herself the damning mantle and idea that she is ‘more spiritual’- this sets her back from real progress and growth as a human being and daughter of God more than fraternizing with fallen men ever could.

  179. I don’t want anyone here going and creating an “I’M A MORMON” spot on the church’s website.

  180. Seth, I never indicated that I thought trust was some human right. I just think chasing your daughters around town to make sure they’re home when you want them is counterproductive generally speaking. No doubt there are times it helps, but that’s not something I would advise others to do with their daughters.

  181. #173: Brother Matsby wins the thread!

  182. Katya, I doubt it was USC. Didn’t he say the college president was a woman?

  183. I’m a father of daughters and feel they would be better served by talks in the style of Holland’s last night than by soft voiced condescension.

  184. Ummm… The audio just cut out on my satellite. Does that mean those sentences were uninspired?

  185. 184 – no, you just haven’t been properly prepared to hear them.

  186. No Rick, it just means they don’t apply to you.

  187. Elder Ballard,

    Either accept the FLDS as “Mormons” – or quit trying to be given the “Christian” label.

    Take your pick.

    You can’t have it both ways.

  188. It’s official! I’m a Mormon.

  189. I somehow think that Elder Ballard was not completely on board with the SEO-inspired “I’m a Mormon” campaign.

  190. OH, the fundies are going to be SO mad about this. Fundamentalist mormons have every right to call themselves mormon.. they believe in the Book of Mormon just like we do. And … ugh. We don’t want to be called mormon, but we won’t let anyone else call themselves mormon??? How much sense does that make? Weird.

  191. Now he’s directly responding to our comments here. I think he has a teleprompter on his left, and this blog feed on the right.

  192. Actually, I think that this part of his talk is all about the SEO-inspired campaign!

  193. “Mormon church” is a problem because it creates confusion with fundamentalist Mormons, but “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” doesn’t because there’s no possible confusion with the “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” or the “Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints”.

    I’m not convinced.

  194. I thought that Mormon referred to the father of Moroni.

  195. so we don’t want offshoots of Mormonism to call themselves Mormon, but he wants other Christians to accept us as Christians…

  196. >182

    Hmm. He was working with a woman who was coordinating the speech and he mentioned the college president, but I didn’t catch that they were the same person.

  197. I testify of the importance of branding and marketing in the name of . . . .

  198. I liked Sister Dalton’s talk. I like that she told the fathers that they needed to do what the girls were being asked to do. I liked her version of the abish story. Loved it actually. I liked that she had the courage to address men directly, when many use the women’s talk as a potty break.

  199. You know, just because the name of a church has “Jesus Christ” in it isn’t going to convince anyone that that church is a Xian religion.

  200. I think it’s a bit refreshing to have a woman telling the men how to be good fathers, rather than the men telling the women how to be good mothers. And no sing-songy-voice. Are there other issues? yes. But is this a bit of a different spin on things? yes.

  201. 196 – I think there were two people. One was a woman who was coordinating the speech, and then there was the college president. They were not the same person.

  202. I think Elder Ballard needs to go read Elder Perry’s talks about sharing the gospel.

  203. FYI, according to the BofM, “Mormon” means “wild beasts.” Mosiah 18:4

  204. I thought we were singing the Primary song “Hello. HELLO” echo song!

  205. Some of you seem to get new comments instantly. I only get them in clumps every 4 or 5 minutes. Is there a fix I can do to get instant updates?

  206. 192/186: I’m pretty sure I heard Pres. Eyring refer to the college president as “he” at the end of the story. I think the “she” he spoke of was some assistant or maybe the commencement coordinator or something.

  207. LRC (199) – I seem to recall folks here complaining that we never have female speakers telling men how to be better fathers. We’re just never happy.

  208. I get the sense that this new “I’m a mormon campaign has been incredibly divisive. That some of our leaders are wholehearted about it and that some of them (read: Packer, Ballard) really don’t like it at all. The whole thing is confusing and uncomfortable.

  209. As a professional academic linguist, i feel the need to point out that top-down directions on language use are almost never successful.

  210. LAURA — Yes, just keep pressing F5

  211. Ron Paul in the choir again!

  212. Not that I don’t understand the significance of taking Christ’s name upon us, but isn’t this mostly all about PR and what our culture/faith looks like to others (an outer vessel assessment) rather than the very behaviors we would want to infuse the message or image. After 15 minutes, I’m not sure I get the importance of naming semantics in my relationship to God, Christ, the Holy Ghost, or my fellow human beings inside or outside of the Church. It’s a fine talk but I guess I’m just not sure what to do with it rather than maybe adjust my Facebook profile information. Am I missing something? Is there some more important issue this is in conversation (like politics in other countries besides USAmerica) that I’m just not privy too?

  213. Observer fka eric s says:

    So confused . . . I think im still a “mormon” tho.

  214. So let me summarize this talk…

    1. We should be using the full name “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” and not the nickname Mormons.
    2. But we still use the nickname for search engine results and convenience – but don’t YOU do it.
    3. But even though we don’t use the name “Mormon” we don’t want other people in the Mormon tradition using it – because that word belongs to us
    4. And other Christians need to acknowledge us as Christians – even though we won’t acknowledge other Mormons as “Mormon”
    5. And in closing – we are actually the only “real” and “authorized” Christians.


    This talk was a complete mess.

  215. “I’ll wear whatever color you want me to wear, dear Lord. I’ll wear what you want me to wear.”

  216. 207 – I disagree. Elder Ballard is a part of the missionary executive committee (or he was a few years ago). I think he is very savvy as to the purpose of the campaign, and is also very savvy as to the need to better connect “Mormon” with “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” This would also explain why he is a part of the group that wishes to deny the usage of the nickname to off-shoot groups, particularly the FLDS.

  217. Could be, then, Katya…I’d love to know. Looks like it was a pretty religion-heavy list. (And I’ll bet it wasn’t as well attended as the 1994 commencement. We had Spielberg & Lucas.)

  218. I think the problem is referring to yourself as a Mormon, just isn’t clear enough of a label to let people know who you are and what you believe. That is why we need to make sure we specify “UTAH Mormon” or “CALIFORNIA Mormon”, etc.

  219. Anne (UK) says:

    #213 Seth R:

    thank you. I thought it was just me.

  220. My dad goes by Bob. Pres. Monson just told him he loves him!!!

  221. ACtually, I thought Ballard quite deft in distinguishing between terms as applied to people and terms as applied to organizations.

  222. is he attacking the Beatles?

  223. Duke of Earl Grey says:

    Hey, don’t diss the Beatles!

  224. Don’t get me started on the evils brought about by the Beatles!

  225. So if it weren’t for the Beatles, we’d still have a perfectly moral society.

    I always knew we’d figure out who to blame eventually.

  226. Did Monson just rip on the Beatles? And he didn’t get struck down?

  227. Re: Daniel #221

    Well, it was long overdue.

  228. Pres. Monson has a great skill for delivering hard truths with a soft blow.

  229. Ben S – I agree with you! I think Elder Ballard was clear in distinguishing between using “Mormon” to describe members of the church as a nickname, as opposed to referring to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as “the Mormon church.”

  230. Beatles. Overrated.

  231. No David B, it’s George W Bush’s fault. Just ask Hussein.

  232. You guys know what really scares me –

    How the audience is laughing at what President Monson is saying.

    I’m not laughing. Because it isn’t funny.

  233. Which is the bigger evidence of evil in the world: The Beatles singing that all you need is love, or ancient warfare traditions that involved killing everyone in a defeated city?

    I’m not convinced the world is more im/amoral than it ever was.

  234. I’m late in commenting about this because I became paralyzed when I heard Pres. Monson mocking my Beatles!!!

  235. 232 – it’s giggles of shared discomfort.

  236. What he’s saying is deadly serious. And the audience is trying to dismiss it with cheap nervous chuckles.

    Keep laughing you schmucks.

    Because he’s talking about YOU.

  237. David B — re #233. I aagree. I think everyone just knows how evil everyone else is due to our advanced in technology.

  238. I thought it was the laugh of “thank goodness he is talking about THEM and not US”

    Silly Mormons in attendance at the Conference Center.

  239. 232–The head jiggle was funny. Think it was meant to be funny.

  240. yeah, the chuckling seems really odd. He really wasn’t that funny there.

  241. The head jiggle reminds me of the ear movement in Priesthood Session a few years ago.

  242. coachodeeps says:

    #190- Your comment reminds me of Suess’ Sneetches on the Beaches with their star bellies.

  243. Now *this* i can fully get behind—that we can each do our individual part to create moral character in our own selves.

  244. We venerate the beatles but it is hard to dismiss that the messages of some of their songs do run very contrary to our beliefs. take “imagine” for example. I don’t think he’s denouncing them just merely using them as an example of how the world talks and thinks in comparison to Latter-Day Saints.

  245. The 1960s as the turning point toward evil of Western society. Am I the only one who wishes we could move past that idea?

  246. More proof the world is more evil than ever: You can’t even beat a woman or a child without the government interfering. Oh the wickedness of this fallen generation!

  247. Oh, the Beatles’ lyrics are quite contrary to the values we hold in this church.

    Whenever our values and theirs intersect, it’s usually by accident.

  248. Trevorm, is there something wrong with The Beatles’ “all you need is love” message? Maybe if he used “Imagine” as the example….

  249. I Have some friends that were recently without a clothes dryer. Then they won a 40″ flat screen. My buddie’s wife insisted they sell the flat screen to buy a new dryer. I got a good deal on that 40″ flat screen!!!

  250. A five dollar bill when he was ten? I just checked, and that’s $75.10 in 2010 dollars—a serious amount of money to lose, especially amidst the Great Depression.

  251. Yes.

    Yes there is something wrong with the message “all you need is love.”

    It’s a shallow and stupid message that doesn’t say anything of use to anyone.

  252. #244,248: Yeah, some of the Beatles’ lyrics go against church messages, but so does a lot of, say, medieval Catholic music.

    And to be precise, “Imagine” is John Lennon solo, not the Beatles.

  253. Seth,

    “Love God with all thine heart, and all thine mind and all thine strength. And love your neighbor as yourself.”

    All you need is love.

  254. Imagine was sung by John Lennon, after the breakup. “why don’t we do it in the road” would be a better example.

  255. Daniel — Good call in 253!!!

  256. Daniel, what Seth (251) said.

  257. No, that’s not the same message at all Daniel.

    And that passage, last I checked, came with quite a few OTHER passages as well.

  258. Besides, your #253 comment just doesn’t make any real logical sense.

    We’re supposed to love.

    Therefore “all you need is love?”

    How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion from that scripture?

  259. Gag. Do people really view the Beatles as philosophers? Maybe I should start worshipping at the church of Bono.

  260. I really don’t think that John, Paul, Ringo, and George were trying to convey deep messages of truth and wisdom. I think they were just having fun.

  261. BiV (125) and Alex (129):

    Tad Callister’s ancestor referred to was Willard Richards.

  262. Daniel, forgive me for earlier implying that you don’t understand humor. Obviously I should have reserved that judgment for Seth’s 257.

  263. Apparently Pres. Eyring did NOT have a similar experience yesterday. That’s why he announced Elder Scott as the first speaker.

  264. Anne (UK) says:

    You quote post breakup “Imagine”, I counter with post breakup “My Sweet Lord”.

  265. My feed completely froze up. Am I being punished for disagreeing with President Monson about The Beatles? Are you saying that he lost his $5?

  266. Duke of Earl Grey says:

    On these two commandments hang all the law and prophets.

  267. Sounds like the kind of driver that President Monson could have used yesterday morning.

  268. 245– Casey, I happen to think the 1960s were far more preferable to the 1940s and 1950s. But then I tend to romanticize that time as much others romanticize the 50s

  269. What once was lost was found.

  270. “Elder Hawkes, who was known to drive rather rapidly…”

    I like humanizing moments in GC.

  271. Kevin Barney says:

    Uh, don’t you people realize the Chicago Bears are playing football right now? Where are your priorities?

  272. Seth,

    “There is none greater commandment than these.” Don’t complicate Jesus’s message. Love God and love your neighbor are the greatest commandments. All you need is love.

  273. Christopher – Ah, that’s who it was. I knew it was one of those early brethren…

  274. Russ, I understand the humor just fine.

    I simply reject it.

  275. Yeah Seth. Don’t complicate the Gospel. Reduce it to simplistic platitudes without context or history, and make sure they fit with pop culture and don’t touch any sacred cows.

  276. observer fka eric s says:

    I heard this first car picture was Elder Hawks car that Prez is referring to:

  277. So, we’ve got a number 1 commandment Daniel.

    Therefore the rest of them don’t matter?

  278. Not as intense as how S. Dilworth Young learned he’d been called as a GA, but it was probably still rather startling for Peter Merrick, i’m thinking.

  279. 275 – LOL

  280. Seth–you’ve been voted out of the thread. ALL WE NEED IS LOVE!!!

  281. Ben, I think that’s exactly the motivation behind the Beetles slogan.

    That’s why I find it insipid, unhelpful, and actually morally damaging.

  282. I was really hoping that Pres. Monson would tie this story into an explanation as to why he was late yesterday.

    But may he and the other GAs decided to just ignore it and see how the members would respond.

  283. don’t forget #2 Seth. Love your neighbor as yourself. Upon these two rest the law and the prophets. So yeah, the rest don’t matter if you don’t have these two down. All you need is love.

  284. And the flame war of the day is about…the Beatles as they relate to the gospel. Whodathunk?

  285. Uh Joe, I’m with Seth and Ben S on this.

  286. Ron Madson says:

    #60, The Beatles and President Monson do have something in common after all.

  287. Doesn’t matter Joe.

    “Nothin’s gonna change MY world.”

  288. OK Trevor, then you can depart with them. LOVE IS ALL WE NEED!!!

  289. “I believe in Christ” is one of those songs I love to hear but hate to sing. By the end my vocal chords are tired of the acrobatics. Nice to listen the MoTab folks sing it.

  290. No Daniel.

    If you get the FIRST commandment right – the REST of them naturally flow out of it. Because they MATTER.

    Do not pass GO, do not collect $200.00.

  291. Ron Madson says:

    I meant #260–The Beatles and President Monson really do have something in common.

  292. What about “All we need is genuine proactive love.” –though it’s probably harder to put into a catchy tune,

  293. they only matter if you follow the first two, Seth. Thanks for the get out of jail free card.

  294. Is this quick tempo for the closing hymn due to the lateness of the hour, and hoping to allow the prayer giver ample time?

  295. mrsbrittdaniel says:

    I was just thinking that, KaralynZ – I hate singing the hymn and hate leading it even more, but they are moving it along at a pretty nice clip. I think more wards should aim for this tempo! Otherwise it is an eight-verse dirge. :(

  296. Yes Joe, all you need is love…. and to be baptized and keep your covenants and to repent and feel the effects of the atonement. But don’t worry love is all you need. You don’t need to appreciate Pres. Monson’s point, just to know and follow a Beatles song.

  297. 175 was sarcasm. I’m with Seth on this. I like the Beatles music, but the whole drugs/free love/anti-religion thing is not something I’m on board with, and I don’t think you can really claim “All you need is love” is what Jesus was saying when you look at them both in any depth.

  298. Trevorm, I’m not sure Joe was declaring himself as being actually on one side or the other in this exchange.

  299. Trevorm,

    my point is that i don’t get why President Monson is dissing on the Beatles, particularly that song, which actually fits with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

  300. #293 Daniel,

    Right. Exactly.

    Which just demonstrates my point that love is not “all you need.”

  301. #299: I may be misremembering, but i thought that that moment was a short bit of an extended quotation, not TSM “dissing on the Beatles”.

  302. 1 John 4:

    7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

    Including the Beatles. :D

  303. Actually, I’d say that slogan from the Beetles, and that they are considered such a source of moral and emotional guidance really does pinpoint the precise nature of the complete moral societal failure known as the baby-boomer generation.

  304. Saw Skooh says:

    257: On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

  305. Seth — Would you get it right already?!?!? It’s the Beatles, not Beetles.

  306. Sure Saw, but apparently they don’t matter if you think you’ve got “the love.”

  307. much as I dislike the baby boomer generation and their selfishness…complete moral societal failure? Harsh much? Where’s the love, man?

  308. Sorry Joe.

    I’ll put it on my to-do list.

    Right after “stop using the term ‘Mormon'”

  309. Anyway, i’m off to make brunch—enjoy arguing over the amorality of the Beatles til noon my time.

  310. Alright Daniel. That was amusing.

    Enjoy your lunch.

  311. Actually, I’d say that slogan from the Beetles, and that they are considered such a source of moral and emotional guidance really does pinpoint the precise nature of the complete moral societal failure known as the baby-boomer generation.

    Indeed. Go ahead and call down fire from heaven to consume them. They’re completely lost, every last one of them.

    Brush with broad strokes much?

  312. I’m with you David. Time for waffles.

  313. Saw Skooh says:

    306: I think you’re missing the point completely. If you master love of God and man then everything in all of the commandments and the teachings of the prophets drops into place. it’s the key to everything. You’re way underselling it (while single handedly denouncing an entire generation, I might add.)

  314. For about the last three years I have followed these posts, and the comments. I am the only one in my house that watches general conference, so I enjoyed reading in on other’s conversations about it. After these last two day, with all the arguing about racism, sexism, religious bigotry, criticizing of leaders and everything else, I think I will head over to FMH for the afternoon session.

  315. “All You Need Is Love” has a much catchier tune than “I Believe In Christ.”

  316. Seth r. You seem kind of angry.

  317. Rd, I’d prefer “curmudgeonly.”

    Lorin, you can’t have been reading these conference threads much before if you think that all this is a new trend this year.

  318. Ha. Fair.

  319. “All You Need is Love”…”Love One Another”….i sense a theme…

  320. One of the problems with instant commenting is that we don’t have the benefit of hearing the whole talks prior to commenting on them – which means many comments get made that are critical of a sentence or two and end up being completely inaccurate when the rest of the talk has been given.

    I’m not just talking about Elder Ballard’s talk, but it is the prime example.

  321. The Beatles stand opposed to everything good and worthwhile about Jesus. If you want music that celebrates the values exemplified by the gospel, then go with Tom Jones. It’s not unusual.

  322. Lorin,,

    Yeah, I almost think I’d prefer the caterwauling at FMH over the sound of large metal vehicles colliding at high velocity. This place can get really noisy sometimes.

  323. Sorry, slept in here. I think Pres. Eyring’s speech may have been USC in 2002. The dean of religious life was a woman rabbi, and that is who was leading the Baccalaureate service with a dinner for graduates the night before commencement. I could imagine her using very firm language. She would have asked him to speak, knowing he was a religious leader, but wouldn’t have wanted him to focus only on Christ.

  324. What’s FMH?

  325. Last Lemming says:

    #114 FTW

  326. #324

    The blog. . Dalton’s talk has been chewed over quite a bit as you would imagine with people coming down on both sides. Not a single mention of the Beatlegate though.

  327. rah, what do you mean not a single mention of Beatlegate? see comment #66, 72, 76

  328. FMH is short for “Feminist Mormon Housewives,” a blog that is one of the closest things held to many hearts in the blogoshere.

    Don’t worry, it will happen to you someday too.

  329. 327

    Good catch didn’t see those. How many Mormons are spending their break tearfully deleting the Beatles off their ITunes? I bet it is dwarfed by the number that fired them up for a little reminiscing. What is this world coming to?

  330. I think Pres. Monson intended to say that in the 60’s they heard “All you need is love,” but they confused pure Christ-like love with love of self and the pursuit of selfish pleasures.

    So I’ll give him a pass on ripping on the Beatles, because I think he was talking about the false interpretation of their message, rather than the idea that the Beatles were singing about how having love for our fellow man could lead to peace in the world.

  331. No, I think that was a correct reading of the Beatles’ message WaMo.

  332. Caterwauling? Whoa, that was totally uncalled for.

  333. Is society really becoming more evil?

    The 60’s to me were a time of great change, in the words of Bob Dylan ” these times thy are a changing’. During that time The scales of rasistness fell from the eyes of many, opposition to needless war & bloodshed fell upon the conscience of the Weston world for one of the 1st times. The rights of women began to flourish from the key work in the fourties & fifties.

    The big issues of sex have always existed, it was just kept quite, divorce had been increasing because no longer are women willing to put up with spousal abuse.

    There is much more work to be done the Arab Spring is evidence of that, but society is evolving no longer can ignorence & bigotry be an excuse for hatful comments.

    What do you all think?

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