Welcome to the BCC Saturday Morning General Conference Thread, as part of By Common Consent’s live coverage of the 182nd Semi-Annual General Conference! We will be providing you with near-continuous live commentary, and other goodies throughout the weekend’s activities. We also encourage you to (if you’re not already doing so) watch Conference live, streaming from LDS.org.
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And, here in SLC, where it’s sunny and ridiculously gorgeous weather in preparation for Winter’s arrival tomorrow…
First Presidency is on the stand, the choir is in fuschia/magenta/orchid pink, Wilberg conducting High on the Mountain Top.
President Uchtdorf conducting.
Welcome from President Monson, “no unhallowed hand…”
You Can Make the Pathway Bright–can’t decide if this is the moment to deploy the one snarky musical comment I’ve allotted myself for this session.
President Packer–“These children of whom I speak represent all of our Heavenly Father’s children. ‘Children are an heritage of the Lord…”
“The ultimate end of all activity in the Church is to see a husband and his wife and their children happy at home, protected by the principles and laws of the gospel, sealed safely in the covenants of the everlasting priesthood.”
“Many times I have puzzled over why I should be called as an Apostle and then as the President of the Quorum of the Twelve in spite of having come from a home where the father could be termed less active. I am not the only member of the Twelve who fits that description. Finally, I could see and understand that it may have been because of that circumstance that I was called. And I could understand why in all that we do in the Church we need to provide the way for parents and children to have time together as a family. Priesthood leaders must be careful to make the Church family friendly.”
“There are many things about living the gospel of Jesus Christ that cannot be measured by that which is counted or charted in records of attendance.” (!!)
Sister Cheryl Esplin–“Teaching Our Children to Understand”
I like the pairing of President Packer talking about learning from our children with this admonition to teach children.
Nice story about prayer with Ashley. I always told my kids they weren’t allowed to pray for their siblings’ repentance :)
“The divine privilege of raising our children is a much greater responsibility than we can do alone without the Lord’s help.”
“Sometimes the most powerful way to teach our children to understand a doctrine is to teach in the context of what they are experiencing right at that moment.”
“We can know our children are beginning to understand the doctrine when we see it revealed in their attitudes and actions without external threats or rewards. As our children learn to understand gospel doctrines, they become more self-reliant and responsible. They become part of the solution to our family challenges and make a positive contribution to the environment of our home.”
I really like this emphasis on children’s development, and the respect for them as real humans!
Elder Hallstrom is cribbing from Gene England :)
Elder Paul Koelliker:
[missionaries] are a powerful, persevering force for good, which is having a profound effect on their lives and upon those who are touched by their service.”
Missionary experience [can] be applied as a template for nurturing others throughout the rest of their lives.
Awakening the desire to know enables our spiritual capacities to hear the voice of heaven.
When we actually live the gospel in the pattern taught by Jesus Christ, our ability to help others increases.
Seeking the patterns leads us to the doctrine of Christ as taught by the Savior and His prophets.
The ultimate means by which we can enjoy the gift and power of the Holy Ghost…is our LOVE for Christ and our fellow man.
The Savior defined the pattern of love…
The Father’s plan designated the pattern of the family organization to help us learn, apply and understand the power of love.
There is seemingly no end to the expansive capacity to love.
Elder Oaks: The incomprehensible suffering of Jesus Christ ended sacrifice by the shedding of blood, but it did not end the importance of sacrifice in the gospel plan. Our Savior continues to require us to offer sacrifices, but the sacrifices he now commands are that we “offer for a sacrifice unto [Him] a broken heart and a contrite spirit.” (3 Nephi 9:20)
“Many Christians have voluntarily given sacrifices motivated by faith in Christ and the desire to serve Him. Some have chosen to devote their entire lives to the service of the Master. This noble group includes those in the religious orders of the Catholic Church and those who have given life-long service as Christian missionaries in various Protestant faiths. Their examples are challenging and inspiring…”
But Mormons sacrifice a lot in lay ministry, missionary work, sacrifices of conversion, temple service, and tithing and offerings and volunteering.
“Such examples strengthen all of us.”
“I also see unselfish Latter-day Saints adopting children, including those with special needs, and seeking to provide foster children the hope and opportunities denied them by earlier circumstances. I see you caring for family members and neighbors who suffer from birth defects, mental and physical ailments, and the effects of advancing years. The Lord sees you also, and He has caused his prophets to declare that “as you sacrifice for each other and your children, the Lord will bless you.” (ETB, 1988)
Just as the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ is at the center of the plan of salvation, we followers of Christ must make our own sacrifices to achieve the destiny that plan provides for us.
Elder Eyring: Mountains to Climb
There seems to me no better answer to the question of why trials come and what we are to do than the words of the Lord Himself, who passed through trials for us more terrible than we can imagine: “For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent.”
President Monson has also wisely taught that a foundation of faith in the reality of those promises takes time to build. …My purpose today is to describe what I know of how we can lay that unshakeable foundation.
Building lasting foundations for buildings was hard work [when I was young]. It also required patience.
In a similar way, the ground must be carefully prepared for our foundation of faith to withstand the storms that will come into every life. That solid basis for a foundation of faith is personal integrity.
Choosing the right consistently creates the solid ground under our faith. Those choices, hundreds in most days, prepare the solid ground on which our edifice of faith is built.
One of the keys to an enduring faith is judging correctly the curing time required. The curing does not come automatically through the passage of time, but it does take time. Getting older does not do it alone. It is serving God and others persistently with full heart and soul that turns testimony of truth into unbreakable spiritual strength.
By Common Consent, a Mormon Blog 
Alas, my kids are grown, so we no longer play Conference Bingo.
Candy is mini Reese’s PB cups, and the word is ‘easter’.
We are ready. A sunny day in the very North of Germany
And thus my Semi-annual return Bloggernacle commenting begins.
The feed kicked in right on time here. That means it won’t cut out early.
Uchtdorf! (You always have to say it like that.)
Day 3 of four-day straight conference live-blogging. Only this one isn’t apostate.
Checking in from East London.
Jetsam, good to have you back.
Checking in from Kyrgyzstan, at least for as long as I can stay awake.
@Ben P
Give it time.
“Members have come from all over the world . . . ” Growing up, there was a time when I thought I was lucky to have it in the living room, while the entire rest of the world had to go to Salt Lake.
Uchtdorf’s accent seems thicker than I remember.
Margaret, you don’t need kids around for bingo and other fun conference games, adults need play too:)
Liveblogging ethics question: are we allowed to comment during prayers?
Mormon Channel’s Roku stream is nice and HD.
Detroit, Michigan, standing by.
And like Jetsam, I now peer into the bloggernacle and make a few comments, only to then hide for the next 6 months…
Confession: I’m disappointed Pres Monson didn’t do another surprise entrance like last October.
Story time, Grandpa Monson!
He used that joke at the YW broadcast lst week!
“Even on mobile devices.” That’s a little scary if you think about it.
I’m thinking he doesn’t look or seem very well.
It wasn’t funny enough to warrant a repeat.
Is Monson referencing the ‘Mormon Moment’?
It sounds kind of like President Monson is slurring a little bit – kind of like he got new dentures and is still getting used to them. Not being snarky, being honest – am I the only one?
Greetings to all the BeeCeeCee peeps. Sunshine up in hurr today.
I think his last late entrance was caused by a mild stroke. That’s just my opinion. That explains slurring.
Multi-tasking StillConfused over here. This opening song is already on my nerves
Oh, what music!
“Liveblogging ethics question: are we allowed to comment during prayers?”
Only if you can type with your eyes closed.
Enjoyed the intro. Strength and courage to repent. Seek after good things, etc. All cast in terms of “we.”
I miss the days when President Kimball, President Benson, and some of the other earlier prophets opened conference with a major talk/message (Beware of Pride, BOM Keystone of our Religion etc.) instead of just the “Hi, here we are again, please pay attention” talks hat have mostly started conference over the last decade or so.
Ben – And arms folded.
I’m in rainy Washington, too.. *waves at Tracy*
But there is sunshine in my heart! <3
Checking in from sunny but chilly Gaithersburg, MD
25 Brandt – I noticed that too. I was listening from the other room and came in to see if his teeth were slipping. My father used to horrify my friends my moving his teeth around. Come to think of it, he still does. ;)
Nice to see all my bloggernacle friends again. The donuts and fruit and chocolate mile are on the serving table just outside the living room. The Candy Bowl is placed by the large screen TV. And the children (8 of ours and 4 cousins) anxiously await the pronouncement of the word HOLY so that they may partake from the candy bowl. It is just after 8 AM local time here in Alaska.
I guess the having to log into the wordpress requirement is new?
I (Same person as Jetsam) am checking from Bowling Green Ohio.
That was a quick transition.
J8veg: Greetings, fellow Marylander!
The Sunshine hymn does not sound very sunshinny–more like is raining.
Wow… this guy is pretty rough sounding.
Hi BiV! I’m on the east side of the mountains, but we’re just as gloomy and wet as the west side this year.
Well, checking in and listening now, surprised there were no temples announced. Won’t be able to watch the afternoon session, getting ready to sing in the Priesthood Session choir Also, President Monson does seen like he has new dentures.
[I’m having trouble commenting. Let’s see if i’ve gotten it fixed now.]
Now that the church has put out more High Def broadcasts over the internet of Conference (and others), you can really tell the age of some of the general authorities. Pres. Packer is looking and sounding pretty rough. He’s reading pretty well, but it sounds like he can’t get the voice out like he wants it.
Greetings from the Center of Zion, where we’re getting our own temple next week.
Does he ever feed these little children?
From the twitter feed it sounds like Packer is giving us all a guilt trip for having a bed.
Listening to Packer invariably brings back Kristine’s magnificent post on Elder Packer from last conference.
Brian F., good luck in the choir later. Wave to the camera!
“the best he could with such light and knowledge as he had.” Same as us.
“I have some sympathy for that preacher…”
Awesome. I really like that way of framing it coming from Pres. PAcker.
Apostate, Ben P (#7, “Day 3 of four-day straight conference live-blogging. Only this one isn’t apostate.”)? I didn’t think the UVU conference was that bad.
So, we should give more to the poor and needy?
From the twitter feed it sounds like Packer is giving us all a guilt trip for having a bed.
I hope he is! That would be a wonderful thing.
“Life was never meant to be easy or fair.” == Pres. Packer. I like that!!
Bhodges, FTW!
Brian, the point is not whether we should be doing more or less. Nor is the point whether the orphans got fed or not. The point is that we should THINK about such matters, ponder them, and reflect on them.
CHanging my username above from themaninstripes to what you normally know me as.
“Single moms and dads are temp states.”
I’m happy with some of the emphasis on families, I think there needs to be more explicit recognition of the great “non-traditional” families that presently exist, that they may be missing some things other families have, but they also gain some experiences and qualities of relationship that other families don’t have.
I like my California king size bed that my husband paid for thanks to my adamant about living in a house–NOT an apartment–when we got married during the few years that the tax break was offered to new homeowners thank you very much.
#54: it was a joke. I tend to be facetious.
Packer’s discussion of poverty is powerful! I am loving this talk!
@Aaron, when he said he felt some sympathy or identification with the too-harsh-doctrine preacher, I thought of Kristine’s post.
I guess not.
On the menu at our house: oatmeal chocolate chip cookies, my homemade guacamole, and chips.
“…seeking to pray, bless, teach these little ones”
Indeed!
Lead in righteousness, never in anger or fear…
He hopes to hear first from his dad. Very sweet.
I loved those words from Elder Packer about his father. Quite moving!
Wow, he got very personal there, I appreciated that.
Ouch! Take that, parents deciding against having children
I think that the Church is pretty good at making the Church family friendly; I think it has a harder time with singles and non-nuclear families.
Time together as families. Make the church family-friendly
(I would add, especially for non-traditional families!)
Blair, yes. Yes. Validation of non-traditional families needs to acknowledge not just that we’re “less than ideal” but that there might even be blessings for families that are living with a single parent.
Packer acknowledges that several apostles had non-standard family lives growing up but nonetheless turned out great (became apostles).
71: J. Stuart, YES!
@President Packer,
Fewer meetings then, please :D
Family time is sacred time. Protect it.
Trevor,
Just in case anyone didn’t understand for the umpteenth time that the commandment to multiply and replenish was NOT removed…You’re going to hell for using birth control.
Refreshing to refocus our thoughts on CHILDREN, rather than the ultimately trivial angsts and controversies of the adults.
Supernal!
sb2, I picked on that too. That meant a great deal to me, too. Enjoying this talk!
“I don’t think you’re going to keep this one…”
Felt akin to God.
“Supernal” count: 1
Great emphasis on not overlooking the “spirit” of the gospel while trying to implement more programs and activities.
So we should reduce the number of church activities and programs to protect families? Does this mean we’re going to reduce the number of extra-special bonus meetings (e.g., priesthood executive committee, ward council, stake general priesthood meetings) to protect families? (Hey, a boy can hope!)
“We get too busy with budgets..buildings…”
Was Packer against the new mall?
#78 – ???
Really like this talk.
Wonderful talk from President Packer. Hope to blog on this one.
If we are such a “family friendly” church, why are children under the age of 8 banned from the Conference Center during General Conference?
Elder Packer said “I groaned within myself.” This is not typical English, but it is a Book of Mormon phrase, in 3 Nephi 17:12. Is this adoption of something he’s read and reread, or deliberate emulation?
Representing Fruit Heights…sunny, sunny, “I want to be outside” Fruit Heights. What happened to rainy conference weekend?
BHodges, calling dibs already. Surely that’s cheating.
Children X2. This old grandfather is taking a nap.
Great talk. Really enjoyed Pres Packer this year.
That said, he was really struggling to get the words out at the end there.
And after spending a good part of the first talk whining because the word “family” wasn’t the word of the session, HOLY has paid off twice in the early goings of this one.
Joe–because it’s mean to make kids sit still in a stuffy room with no windows for two hours.
Is it just me or is the English feed on lds.org in several languages all at once?
Looks like there’s a biblical variant as well, “And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.” Rom 8:23
Re 88 Because it is unfriendly to a child under 8 to require him to sit quietly in a place like that, hearing words not understood.
Someone *please* give her cup of water…
Obviously I’m channelling Kristine.
#95 – and because people come from all over the world to be there, and keeping them out because all the huge Utah families would bring their gazillion kids with them …
Tears for no reason=the Holy Ghost.
I don’t know that i totally buy that particular Mormon meme, actually.
88,
really Joe, you don’t see a need to limit noise and hullabaloo from a meeting that gets beamed worldwide?
Outstanding talk by Packer. All its emphases reminded me of what James called pure religion: “Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.”
#103 – I’ll talk with Pres. Eyring about that for you.
So it only takes two weeks to prepare kids for baptism? Cool—so i’ve got almost a year before i have to talk to my nearly-7-year-old about it!
I am very happy to be pleasantly surprised by Elder Packer’s talk–very generous, sweet, and humble. Among other points mentioned, he freely referred to joint decisions between him and his wife.
PS I also had trouble with the wordpress login so I used an alternative email address. No issue now.
Her anecdote is a reminder to me that parents and children are very, very different. And different stuff works for them. I doubt I’d ever do that “let’s pray about it approach with my kids – and they’d find it rather weird.” I’d probably just tell them to figure it out themselves, and if the fight continued – take the toy away from both of them and boot them outside.
This is a test post. I can’t figure out the comment system. My last very large comment got deleted.
“Her anecdote is a reminder to me that parents and children are very, very different.”
#109 – Amen, Seth. What works for some won’t work for all – but it will work for some.
Learning leading to understanding leading to learning leading to… Not a new idea, but well delivered here.
Tears for no reason=the Holy Ghost.
Crazy how I always feel the Spirit the most in that week before my period.
Oh no he didn’t. Poelman redux.
Shades of Elder Poelman!?///
Hallstrom is a future apostle. I’d bet an Ensign subscription.
#113 – BCotW
Gospel != Church. Hallelujah.
I spoke too soon, methinks.
#114&115: Gospel!=church was immediately followed by “but we need both”. I’m waiting to see which shoe drops.
We should really put out an album titled, “Dramatic Readings of Children’s Hymns.”
BHodges, jinx!
Oh, oh. Gospel v Church. Will this talk be printed?
Gospel and church not the same! Gospel and church not the same!
I have to say that she didn’t have the typical “Primary Voice” for that talk. Refreshing.
my video feed just cut out :(
I heard once that all talks were passed through the quorum or 1st Presidency before going live…like…they read all the talks prior to “approving” them. Is there any weight to this, or is it heresay?
Elder Hallstrom’s talk is nice. Rather direct.
“Tears for no reason=the Holy Ghost.”
Actually, I personally believe that confirmation bias is a good and valid method of testimony building.
And yes – I’m being serious.
Missionaries comprised of “the young…and the less so”. I admit it, i chuckled.
Born in Hawaii? Is he a US citizen?
Brandt, that’s heresay. I’ve been told by a very reliable source that that is not the case.
#126: Given that sometimes later GC addresses respond directly to earlier ones from the same weekend, i don’t think it can be true in the strictest sense. Whether it’s true that at least the outlines (or initial drafts) of any address have to be pre-approved? That i don’t know.
McKay was very dapper, I always heard.
#120: We need youth-oriented hymns on that album, too, it appears.
Cream-colored suit–not a charcoal color suit. :-)
David O. McKay did always look very at home in the islands. There was something wonderfully international about him.
‘Some have come to think that activity in the Church is the ultimate goal…’ Really liking this.
I don’t think President Monson could pull of a cream-colored suit.
“It is possible to be active in the church, and less-active in the gospel.” — Elder Hallstrom — That’s good!!!
Possible to be active in the Church and less active in the gospel.
“It is possible to be active in the Church, but inactive in the Gospel”
…..
Raises hand guiltily.
Tracy M (#131) – Thanks for clearing that up. I thought it contradicted a lot of what I’ve heard about the conference “process,” which also explains the corrections that are made post-broadcast, as well as things like the Poelman talk.
Less-visible things are more important than externals.
Is it possible to be less active in the Church but active in the gospel?
“Some think that activity in the Church is the most important thing. Therein lies a danger…it is insufficient.” FTW
“Some have come to think that activity in the Church is the ultimate goal…”
Awesome!
Wow! Very direct talk about true gospel in our lives in contrast to mere church activity!
My understanding is that they are told in which session they will be speaking, and whom they are following/being followed by, and then charged to pray about it and write their talk. The talks must be submitted ahead of time for translation services, but they are not necessarily vetted or changed.
Activity in the church does not equal activity in the gospel. I nearly fist-pumped when he said that. (The big question he hasn’t addressed: Yes, one can be simultaneously active in the church but inactive in the gospel—but can one be simultaneously active in the gospel and inactive in the church?)
American Eagle, Hawaii has been part of the U.S. since 1898
1. Deepen understanding of Deity. Sustained love for Godhead. Mindfully pray to Father in name of Son with direction from Holy Ghost. Continually study to build faith.
If we leave the Church, it is our own fault… we weren’t completely converted. At least he didn’t say we were offended or wanted to be slutty
If I had a nickle for every anti-Mormon who touted years of CHURCH activity….
Nice reminder that this can ultimately count for little.
Everyone sounds thirsty
143, 148. It would seem no, given his stress on ordinances and covenants.
“Concentrating on the GOSPEL, the church will become more of a blessing in our lives…” AMEN!
2. Focus on the ordinances and convenants. Then live faithful to them with weekly “gift” of sacrament. Says it has a cleansing power.
3. Unite the gospel with the Church. Concentrating on the gospel, the Church will become more, not less, a blessing. Come prepared to Church. “If we come to be entertained, we will be disappointed.” TRUTH.
Oh man. Recapitulates the “never be bored or it’s your fault” thing.
>149
I think it was an Obama/birther joke.
Seth (#140), me too! I am feeling this call to repent.
Elder Hallstrom is hitting it out of the park. It’s like a correlated Elder Pulman [spelling, sorry] throwback.
We tend to focus so much on measurable perfection in Church culture. We can sure do a better job at loving one another on our paths to gaining greater faith, rather than just counting if they’re doing everything on the “I’m churchy” checklist.
“If we come to be entertained, we will often be disappointed.”
Can’t argue with that… our meetings can’t compare with Mega Church rock bands.
#151: Yeah, i caught that, too. (In all fairness, it was a throwaway line, but i’d like to see it unpacked a bit more, myself.)
Interesting recipe in order to talk about Church/Gospel difference without the problems Poleman experienced: speak very highly of the Church–seriously, say there is nothing like it in the rest of the world–and then move on to the gospel.
Heresay: a crazy combination of hearsay and heresy; spiritually deadly to those who heard it from somebody else.
Uchtdorf’s tie is pretty fabulous.
How many of you actually stand and sing at home?
“if you’re bored in church it’s your fault.”
Well, I add the important caveat: That’s only really true if you’re an assigned teacher or speaker and other people are bored, or, if you’re in charge of making sure the teachers and speakers are prepared. Then it’s your fault.
#152: “If I had a nickle for every anti-Mormon who touted years of CHURCH activity….” I thought the exact same thing Seth.
Hey Admins, Gene England link is dead, please re-upload as I’d love to see the crib Notes.
But what about those who come to socialize?
Well that was a gutsy talk for a first-timer!
I really liked that talk, except the sentence referenced in #151. That left sort of a bad taste in my mouth.
Nice singing without my wife here to elbow me for singing the alto line.
#163: Capozaino, LOL
Yeah it was, Cynthia. I’m glad.
Wow!! No commentary on Uchtdorf’s tie until #164?? That’s gotta be a record.
Lots of good little tidbits in there. I hope all those Bishops who assign conference talks as Sacrament mtg topics (a practice that tends to create crummy sermons) choose this one. It’s fresh and relevant.
BHodges/Sarah Palin’s Joe,
Loved that comment as well. Loved that talk. Loved it.
#122,
Haha thought the same thing.
Every year I question the wisdom of having the primary kids be forced to learn an adult hymnbook song for the Primary Program, but hearing my kids sing along to How Firm a Foundation (the designated hymn a couple years ago) always warms my heart.
Is it me, or is Ron Paul in the Choir? Right over the conductor’s left shoulder.
Where the praise for the new City Creek Center, and how it is a new way of showing financial devotion to the Church?
(hogging the candy dish, waiting)
How Firm a Foundation–my new favorite hymn. It’s the one my dad requests every Sunday when we meet with him. All seven verses.
#172: Another guy who sings the alto line? Good to meet you, sir. (My wife doesn’t elbow me for it, though, since she’s usually singing the tenor part.)
I have to leave, no more conference for me. But ‘being active in the church isn’t the same as being active in the gospel.’ That’s what I needed to hear. And then he listed the activity in the gospel (!) Faith! Repentance! and something something I’m gonna have to look at a second time. At least.
I can assure you that the talks are, in fact, reviewed by the Office of the First Presidency before they are delivered. In this process, some changes are, in fact, made to the talks before they are delivered. In short, they’re all vetted nowadays, though some time ago they weren’t.
Fwiw, I’m never bored in church – because if something is boring, I don’t listen and, instead, daydream or construct my own talk / lesson in my head.
– and he didn’t actually say it that way.
That’s definitely a good RP lookalike, #179.
She can’t do it, but I’d elbow my wife (or any woman) for singing the tenor line.
Hallstrom’s talk was not only gutsy but really pierced me deep in my heart. I feel a call to repent in that talk. I could be doing much, much better in being active in the gospel even though I have been working hard in my church callings etc. Really great talk.
At least on my computer’s screen, there’s a ripple effect with this guy’s tie. It’s being *way* distracting.
My wife just wishes I would sing more.
I’m never bored in church, because I always bring good reading material…
179–That guy is actually my uncle Clark :)
Amen, Cynthia (188).
Wait, there are some of you who DON’T sing along?!! [Gob voice] Come on! [/Gob voice]
Elder Koelliker’s talk is pretty plain, but I realize my boredom is my fault. So I overcame my boredom by starting to think about something entirely different. Case closed.
Kristine’s related to Ron Clark Paul! Didn’t know that.
191 Ben P FTW (I seriously agree)
“If you’re bored in church it’s YOUR fault [for not having Angry Birds on your smart phone.]”
Hey #180 has my name but it is an imposter???? Am I really that cool??
I like singing one verse tenor, one bass, and one harmony.
Unfortunately, the bass line in this song utterly sucks.
BHodges, I’m actually really liking this talk–I must be more righteous than you :)
No, really, I think we could always stand to talk more about love, simply.
“On the day my own family was organized…” I don’t really know why, but that description of a sealing kind of squicks me out a bit.
I like this guy’s tie. But he is also thirsty. Juice Boxes… get these guys some juiceboxes
#201 – What Kristine said. You’re unrighteous, BHodges.
Me, too. But this was nice: ”
There is seemingly no end to the expansive capacity to love.”
I thought the last part was especially powerful, tbh. Really liked his ideas about love and gravity, love increasing, being drawn, and God’s arms. For real, really liked that bit. Glad I kept listening. :)
BHodges, I hope you’re memorizing Oaks’ opening paragraph ;)
#200 Seth, I love you. Will you sit next to me in Sacrament Mtg? I usu alternate between soprano and alto. (and occasionally the bass or tenor line an octave higher)
He talked about ability to love everyone equally and fully. Also about the endless capacity to love.
*waits for plural marriage to be restored*
Kristine: check.
The story about the missionaries and the angry man at the door just brought up a thought to me – there’s a very common theme I’ve found in online criticism of our faith.
It’s almost always mean-spirited and unkind.
Eliza R. Snow quotation from one of my fav sacrament hymns. Woot.
Amen #202. My pet peeve is the people who have signs that say “The Smiths Est. 2010” where the year is the year that they were married. It is as if the people didn’t exist until they were married
Regarding everyone sounding thirsty (btw what does it mean to “sound thirsty”?), do you think maybe they are all fasting?
Do singers in the Mormon Tabernacle Choir get paid?
I am smelling blood….
#215 – No.
I absolutely love the quality Elder Oaks’s voice, and it often distracts me from his content. (I do phonetic analysis of speech as my job, so i’m probably more apt to this sort of thing than most, i figure.)
Maybe they all had poptarts right before conference and that is why they sound thirsty
Love this: “Many Christians have voluntarily given sacrifices motivated by faith in Christ and the desire to serve Him. Some have chosen to devote their entire lives to the service of the Master. This noble group includes those in the religious orders of the Catholic Church and those who have given life-long service as Christian missionaries in various Protestant faiths. Their examples are challenging and inspiring…”
I think it’s the most detailed praise of other faiths I’ve ever heard in conference?
I don’t know…. referring to family as being “organized” may rub Hollywood sentimentality the wrong way – but it seems a more reliable, practical, and ultimately long-lasting notion than the sort of fleeting sentimental nonsense that seems to found a good chunk of the marriages in our country right now.
Christians killed by other Christians are tragic. (I would add certain heresy trials and so forth to that phenomenon.)
Religious orders of the Catholic Church, lifelong Xtian missionaries in various Protestant faith, challenging and inspiring examples.
Shout-out and love to Roman Catholic priests and nuns!
When he was talking about the missionaries and the angry man, I started getting nervous. Missionaries love to hear the “us against the man” argument, they love to hear about “standing up” for what they feel is right against an angry man, and in the 10 times these confrontations happen, maybe one in 10 actually work out successfully. Instead of putting the pressure of converting everyone, I think the story showed moreso the LOVE that missionaries should have towards everyone, something that I sometimes find lacking among some missionaries.
Shoutout to nuns and priests!
Sarah Rich instead of Charles C.??!! Hallelujah!
Wow, shout out to other Christians who sacrifice. I like it. Elder Oaks is always awesome.
Kristine, great quote. Thanks for typing it in.
Even though there’s nice shout-outs…..we sacrifice more than everyone.
kinda makes the shout-outs less….shout-out worthy…
Cynthia, #214 “sound thirsty” is a personal pet peeve of mine, and it’s when someone’s mouth is dry and their lips smack while they speak. It makes listening to them, for my quirky ears, utterly completely unbearable. It’s like nails on a chalkboard. Actually, nails on a chalkboard sound better to me.
Great answer, Pres. Hinckley!
Someone keeps posting as me even when I change my name. Hmmmmmm
Me chanting: Bring back the cross! Bring back the cross! Bring back the cross!
No professional clergy. There are downsides to this, in having less-than-prepared exchanges in theological discussion with other faiths.
Cynthia (214): a visiting GA once related the instructions he received for his first GC talk. After going over a general list, the apostle then told him, “and please, don’t fast.”
Kristine, me too – I love it
Kristine, agreed. That was a wonderful statement. It was Oaks a few years ago who, in his talk on healing, recognised that other faiths are able to experience the gift of healing. I appreciated that then and this today.
Groan, Elder Oaks is giving a “we’ve got the spirit, yes we do, we’ve got the spirit…and you don’t talk”
Something’s different about Elder Eyring…can’t quite put my finger on it.
Can you claim a lay ministry if the general authorities receive healthy stipends?
@ 233 Bhodges. I’m with you brother. Bring back the cross
The recognition that other denominations have lay ministries is nice, but the claim that we sacrifice more time than anybody else? Dude, you’ve never heard of the Jehovah’s Witnesses? What their active members do puts our missionary work to shame.
Oaks has better skin than I do, and I’m less than half his age. I wonder if it’s some vitamin supplement or special juice that he gets from someone in his ward? :-) Seriously though, good on him.
Andrew, it is true that active Mormons sacrifice a great deal more of their time than most of the rest of the United States. Maybe we shouldn’t be bragging about it, but it is true enough.
We need some pep rally for our team, yes, but I also think it could better be coupled with shout-outs to good people of all walks. The “daily gospel living” we do is great, but in many ways it mirrors the sacrifices and Christian-principled (whether acknowledged or not) service done by all sorts of good people. Parents who sacrifice for their kids, acts of kindness and charity, philanthropic enterprises, etc.
No commentary on Uchtdorf’s tie or Oaks’ glasses?
BCC, I am disappoint.
#234–Ha! Well, now we know why! Also, I can imagine some rookie who went overboard on a fast and is very nervous just fainting.
Also ought to acknowledge some of the social pressures which leads to some of these sacrifices and so forth. The church/gospel distinction could be applied there.
#245 I am disappoint, lulz. He does have nice glasses. Good choice, Oaks’ optometrist!
Our sacrifice for our faith makes us equal to (or better than) others who call themselves Christians. Is anyone else getting this message?
What’s a Rameumptom, Daddy?
Actually the reason we don’t use the cross is because in Joseph Smith’s day, no American Protestant church used the cross. It was considered to be a symbol of the papacy, which American Protestantism intensely disliked. So no one used the cross.
The Protestants got over this initial aversion over time. But stuck in the mountain deserts of Utah, the Mormon church grew up in isolation from these wider Protestant trends. So we never re-adopted the cross.
That’s basically why we don’t use it.
The claim was that Mormons sacrifice more in their day-to-day lives than other Christians, Seth. Not the rest of the United States.
My Mormon husband makes more sacrifices in living his religion than I make in living mine? News to me.
@233 Love the Cross. Wish we used it more.
#245: There was one Uchtdorf’s tie comment, but only one. Maybe it’s all the people watching on mobile devices, and so they can’t make out as many details?
No price too great to get temple blessings — even gold fillings? :) Gentle jab.
Elder Oaks: “Many Christians have voluntarily given sacrifices motivated by faith in Christ and the desire to serve Him. Some have chosen to devote their entire lives to the service of the Master. This noble group includes those in the religious orders of the Catholic Church and those who have given life-long service as Christian missionaries in various Protestant faiths. Their examples are challenging and inspiring…”
How do we persuade young people to serve missions? We ask them… And apply enormous family and peer pressure.
Ms. Jack, I don’t know that I agree with Seth, but he was speaking statistically, so your personal experience, sample size N=2 people, doesn’t really speak to what he was saying.
Not a fan of his tie. Diagonal stripes all the way!
214 – Maybe they woke up late and didn’t have time to eat/drink before coming to conference. I call it an “accidental fast.” I have those all the time.
I knew Pew was behind this. . .
#252 – As a general rule, it’s true – but not on an individual basis, by any stretch. That also is what he said at the beginning of his talk.
Ben(249): not at all. I thought this was the most charitable sermon toward other religions in quite some time. He even specifically said we should sympathize with how others choose to sacrifice for their faith.
Nice! Shout-out to adoptive and foster parents and caregivers: “I also see unselfish Latter-day Saints adopting children, including those with special needs, and seeking to provide foster children the hope and opportunities denied them by earlier circumstances. I see you caring for family members and neighbors who suffer from birth defects, mental and physical ailments, and the effects of advancing years. The Lord sees you also, and He has caused his prophets to declare that “as you sacrifice for each other and your children, the Lord will bless you.” (ETB, 1988)
Audio is cutting out a little here – anyone else have this problem?
I’m curious what he thinks the limits of acceptable sacrifice for the gospel might be. (For example, Mormons don’t really actively seek after martyrdom or such, and i don’t think he’s saying we should.)
ACtually, I thought Oaks’ included a very balanced and more-than-usual number of positive references to non-LDS clergy and others, recognizing their goodness and sacrifice.
re:the cross, I feared he was going to repeat the “instrument of death” idea as to why we don’t use it. N.T. Wright takes that tack, but then shows why it’s so important to understand.
“Crucifixes regularly appear as jewelry in today’s post-Christian Western world, and the wearers are often blissfully unaware that their pretty ornament depicts the ancient equivalent, all in one, of the hangman’s noose, the electric chair, the thumbscrew, and the rack. Or, to be more precise, something which combined all four but went far beyond them; crucifixion was such an utterly horrible thing that the very word was avoided in polite Roman society. Every time Paul spoke of it — *especially when he spoke in the same breath of salvation, love, grace, and freedom*– he and his hearers must have been conscious of the slap in the face thereby administered to their normal expectations and sensibilities…. God has reversed the world’s values.- N.T Wright, 46-47 in What St. Paul Really Said.
Jack, I like the idea of giving active Mormons credit for what they do. Because they do an awful lot of work.
But I’ll simply quietly agree that it would be nice to acknowledge that their level of commitment is not unique to Mormonism. My aunt is Jehovah’s Witness, and does more work for her faith than I do for mine.
Ben P, yes, it’s a good theme this morning
#245 & 254: I came in late, hence the late tie shout-out. These past two red ties aren’t doing anything for me.
Ben P (262), I think I agree. But I think he still did mention that he thinks that mormons sacrifice more for their religion than any other group.
#252 Cynthia L. ~ I don’t know how Oaks can “statistically” know that Mormons sacrifice more in their day-to-day lives than other Christians. How do you statistically measure something like sacrifice?
So far two full-throated talks celebrating the positive qualities of the Church–how much we sacrificew, how we we are organized. This is coupled with generous comments to other Christian traditions and practices.
At this time of heightened national interest in the Church, there is heightened scrutiny by the media. Clearly there is the expectation that more media are following Conference.
Brooke #259 – I’ve always been wary of horizontal stripes on neckties. I think it’s a very small percentage of people who can pull it off. Even less-so with vertical stripes. Diagonal seems to be the best way to go, followed by paisley and then dots.
Though, if we’re talking about dress, if anyone were to bring back the cream colored suit, it would be Uchtdorf. And I’d love to see it. He could also pull off the white wavy hair too.
Really lovely talk from Elder Oaks. I enjoyed that a lot.
Perhaps that is true as a group, but not individually. But what about the jews?
Eye roll.
#262: He very directly said that Mormons sacrifice more than any other Xian group. I’m actually curious whether that’s going to make it into the printed record of the conference.
The source of Elder Oaks’ claim about how Mormons give more is Cnaan, Evans, and Curtis, “Called to Serve: The Prosocial Behaviour of Active Latter-day Sains,” Penn School of Social Policy and Practice, quoted at http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormon-volunteerism-report
Ms. Jack, if you read my comment that you are responding to, you will see that I was referring to Seth, not Oaks, and that I said I didn’t necessarily agree with him.
245 – You missed 238, a clear shot at Oaks’ glasses.
Ms. Jack: go read the Pew survey and quibble with that, it’s what he’s relying on.
And the exact words were “All of this affirmed in a nation-wide study which concluded that active members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ‘volunteer and donate significantly more than the average American and are even more generous in time and money than the upper [20 percent] of religious people in America.'”
#273: I vote solid colors on ties, myself.
I think the reference to that study kind of cries out for more details.
Ah, Kristine actually provides the right source! Jack, see 279, yo.
Ben (270): we still have to keep some form of exceptionalism :)
In seriousness, this is a great session so far. I actually feel quite uplifted.
And hello to fellow Marylander, BHodges!
Oh wow! Uchtdorf rocking the very Easter-colors tie! Love it!
Uchdorf’s tie looks like a ray of sunshine. ;-)
Fell asleep for a few minutes there…and E. Eyring is STILL talking. Man, he’s good.
Penal substitution/ransom suffering—so 12th century….
I’m here now. What did I miss?
And…another dark red tie.
brandt 273 – I would love to see Uchtdorf in that suit with that hair. Monson or Holland could probably pull it off, but not as well if you ask me.
Thanks for the added reference, Kristine.
Why do we also have to claim the first place- we are the best, other people sacrifice, but our sacrifices are better… etc. Why can’t we say, “there is so much good in the world, so many people living Christ-filled lives. Let’s strive to be among them.” Why do we always have to think we are better? Seems contrary to what we learn in the scriptures.
#282&283: If you look at the Pew survey’s methodology, it doesn’t actually fully support the claim Oaks was making. There’s a difference between volunteering time generally and volunteering time to one’s religion, and as i recall the Pew results (which i had to look into in great detail this past fall for work reasons), they dealt with the former and not the latter—but Oaks was talking about the latter.
283 – I found your solid colored tie.
I do not agree that Mormons sacrifice more than other Christian faiths at all. Coming from the South to Utah, there is a lot less sacrifice that I see here. How are they defining More sacrifice?
Note the theodicy here: Eyring doesn’t address it logically or systematically. Instead he reads revelation, which itself focuses on reassurance, commiseration, and a lack of full understanding of why things are going so badly.
@300 Maybe he means by having to put up with snark and whining eye rolling by some commenters (including impersonators) in our attempts to share Conference with each other.
#281 Blair ~ I’m aware of the Pew survey. Last I checked, financial giving and volunteer work are far from the only ways that someone can make sacrifices for their religion. The job you take or the school you choose to attend or the place you decide to move with your family can all be sacrifices on behalf of one’s religion—yet they wouldn’t show up on a Pew survey.
Good Easter theme from Pres. Eyring here. (My parents’ bishop in college.)
#299&301: There’s a lot of danger of oral tradition being considered actual doctrine in any religion—in one with a non-formally-trained clergy, it’s arguably a greater danger.
Do you ever get bored of hearing the same old cliche quotes. The Line Upon Line one is the most tired to me
Is anyone else having issues with post numbers changing upon reloading the page? (That’s why my last comment references the wrong upthread posts.)
Tedious preparation may be necessary to build faith.
@loathingthewordpress: I am putting some comments in moderation, and that messes up the numbers. Sorry. Just trying to prevent tangents and flame wars.
Tracy — Haven’t heard the word EASTER yet. Guess you’ll still have a full bowl of peanut butter cups for the next session.
306; I’m assuming there’s admin editing going on — comments disappear when numbers change.
Encourage those who are in trials is a good topic. Hope he says something uplifting
Cynthia–Do you have the option to just Edit the comment with something like “This comment removed by moderator” so that it doesn’t mess up the comment numbers? Just a thought.
Am I out of moderation yet?
[admin: Answer: you weren’t “in moderation” but individual comments were deleted when they were orphaned by deleting what you were responding to]
Gross… someone dying… not a good motivator for me
Forgiveness leads not just to happiness, but hope. I like that.
Is it just me or is this a realy long talk
#316: At half-past the hour, this was introduced as the concluding address. I’m guessing he’s been allotted 21 minutes, which is the longest i’ve seen non-PH-session GC addresses go during the past decade or so.
Thanks. I was pulled away for a bit with a client emergency (guess that client isn’t mormon or doesn’t do general conference) so I missed 13 minutes
For reasons I keep largely quiet for the present, I want to say this sermon, despite all of the nitpicks here and some of my own, seems to have been written for me. I don’t feel like that very often. But God bless Pres. Eyring.
Cynthia, thanks for the hard work in moderation.
I am really liking all of the talks this session. It has seemed very personal, uplifting, and good.
My stake participated in the Penn survey. The SP visited each ward and devoted a 5th Sunday lesson to filling out the survey. All the adults present (if you were with the youth or primary, someone visited your class) that day were required to complete the form, and were coached to give the expected responsed. Perhaps it was handled better in other stakes, but my experience leads me to beleive that there was too much bias in the sampling for it to be accurate.
Where did everyone go? Did everyone fall asleep?
#316: FP talks are around twenty minutes, Q12 15 minutes, and everyone else 10 minutes. Hence the long talk.
#321 — wow
Great thread, everyone.
PS. I am genuinely missing Steve Evans.
me too! Did he give up BCC for lent?
Love that men’s a cappella part.
This is a great arrangement overall.
I’m more often than not a cynic–one of my biggest failings–but I admit that I was touched this session. Every talk had a message that sincerely struck a cord with me. Great start for the weekend!
(Sadly, the UK schedule throws me off. Since I have to watch all four sessions tomorrow, it gets a bit weary.)
This has been fun. I won’t be here for the second session (one of my daughters has a basketball game—that counts as a “wholesome recreational activity, right?), but i’ll see all y’all tomorrow.
We miss him too, Aaron–partly because he’s the only one who remembers how to work around the limit on daily tweeting!
#326: actually, he did exactly that.
I liked Elder Eyring’s talk. You can’t really go wrong with a talk comforting those in trial. And if you are the one in trial, it feels needed and refreshing. Redeemer of Israel really fit right in following it, as well.
#321–surprised that the researchers permitted data collection in this manner. I assume they outline in their report how the data are collected in each group and this possibility (when distributing through wards and stakes)would certainly be noted as a weakness of the study.
That said, I can attest that doing research on Mormons–even Mormon bishops–can be a challenge. The Church research department has robust methods of collecting data and they may or may not (usually not) allow academic or outside researchers to use their channels.
#333: The Pew survey collected data by phone—#321 must be referring to a different survey.
Lots of flashes going off in the crowd. This looks like a football game audience now. :) I wonder if that’s banned during the proceedings, but people are allowed to record their moment after the end?
Session ended about 4 minutes early. WHich speaker didn’t pull their weight by filling their full allotted time?
Wow, the lid busting off the tabernacle. Um. Just wow.
Loved Elder Eyring’s talk! As my husband and I shared our reactions, I realized that each of us is listening from separate contexts. I am listening as a mother, eager for messages of encouragement and comfort, for stories I might share with my children. Bruce, though also listening as a father, is also listening as a bishop, gleaning counsel for his responsibilities in our ward. Also, I cleaned my whole refrigerator while listening to Conference.
321 My ward also participated in the Penn survey. No coaching whatsoever in my ward and it was entirely voluntary. It was very detailed, breaking church and community service down by type and duration over the course of the previous year.
I will be watching all 4 sessions of conference when they become available for live streaming. I am especially interested in watching Conference alone this year, and possibly even putting my thoughts on paper. It sounds good so far though, especially Henry B Eyring’s talk? I like him alot.
#334: I was referring to the Cnaan, Evans, and Curtis survey from the U of Penn. The methodology bothered me, so I refused to hand in my form. I may still have it in a stack of old papers.
Pres Eyring started to bear his testimony (got to listen to that part) so I forgot to check for typos in my previous comment!
340 EOR — if you’re waiting for the sessions to “become available for live streaming,” you’ve already missed one.
What was the best talk?
Any comments with a name that includes some variant of StillConfused that are not in fact from the person who usually uses that name will be deleted and the IP banned. Pick a handle, your own handle, and just one handle for all your comments. Switching handles or appropriating handles is prohibited and will not be treated kindly.
And that means you too Mother Bratsby!
Elder Oaks’s brother was an ophthalmologist–he should have cool glasses!
342 you’re right not live streaming, just streaming. They said on lds.org that it will be available 24 hours later if I remember correctly.
Loved this whole session! I’m feeling a surge of faith, courage, determination, and blessedness. But oh, please Lord, don’t give me higher mountains to climb just yet, please? My cement is curing. It needs more curing time, I feel sure. Please? =)
By the way, conference treat this time is 1-2-3-4 cake with chocolate buttercream icing, and the word is “supernal”. I heard it once this session. Anyone hear it more times?
Oh, and don’t miss Matsby’s lolcats this time, (link at top left sidebar). He gets funnier and funnier.
Love love love that Elder Holland just used pickle juice negatively in his talk. By the way, where is Elder Bednar today?
Scott’s talk has some really interesting theology going on.
So glad this is the Steve Evans Memorial. I was going to ask where he went on earlier threads but didn’t want to thread-jack. His short pithy comments were awesome and greatly missed by me. RIP…………………………..