When Moroni Symbolized the Rising Generation

This guest post is from Madison Daniels, of the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance.

In the opening hours of March 18th, the Wasatch fault groaned and let out an exasperated sigh. She is dealing with a lot and she is tired. A 5.7 earthquake thundered across northern Utah and rattled a people already anxious about so much. Not two weeks later, the Earth shuddered once more, with a 6.5 quake in Idaho. It was one hell of a March.
While the Coronaquakes of 2020 didn’t claim any lives or injure any people, they did cause a fair amount of property damage. The most obvious and photogenic being Angel Moroni dropping his golden trumpet. Photos of the trumpetless Moroni spread like wildfire through the news and social media. The iconic symbol of modern Mormonism stood, if only for a moment, without his single solitary voice.
At the risk of reading too much into symbolic (herbal)tea leaves, let me speak to what has been swirling in my mind for a while now.


Generational Groundshift
March has brought a lot to the Church’s plate, some of it self-inflicted. Cancelled Church, the mass returning of Missionaries, significantly altered General Conference, the local scramble of how to administer to the Sacrament to membership, that it’s hard to remember the Church bungled revising the CES Honor Code. I have a faded memory of BYU students and LGBTQ+ allies showing up in mass numbers to protest the Church Office Building. I was there ​207 years one month ago.


A lot has already been written about the Church’s clumsy and botched handling of BYU’s honor code. So I won’t add more. But those events were a real-life demonstration of one of the Church’s biggest problems—Millennials and Gen Z.

It is no mystery that religious affiliation in ​America is declining​. And it’s also no mystery that Mormon Millennials are among the poorest retained generations in recent history. In Jana Riess’ book ​The Next Mormons,​ she relates that 54% of Millennials have disaffiliated to one degree or another. I’m sure Church leaders have similar statistics and I’m sure the numbers give them pause.

In the introduction to ​Future Mormon: Essays in Mormon Theology​ by Adam Miller, he writes that
“if Mormonism continues to matter, it will be because they, rather than leaving, were willing to be Mormon all over again… They will have to rethink the whole tradition, from top to bottom, right from the beginning, and make it their own in order to embody Christ anew in this passing world.”

I am a Millennial. And I am willing to be Mormon all over again. But rather than telling the Church all the things they can do to retain my generation and those that follow, I’m going to speak to what Mormonism looks like when it’s lived by me. While any one individual is not an indication of an entire generation, my experience may be a good cross-section for what to expect from my cohort.


A Big Diverse Earthy Mormonism
I live a big Mormonism that is unconcerned with being ​right​. Being right was a big deal to me when I was a teenager and I would often wield the ​truth​ as a sword against myself and those I cared about. After many years of learned humility and lessons in compassion, I care more about creating space for a diversity of perspectives and holding the voices of the marginalized high. My Mormonism is more about “yes, and” than “no, but.”


I stand in solidarity with my LGBTQ+ friends and family. My heart has been broken and healed many times by sharing space with and listening to their stories. And no matter what an Honor Code or a Church policy says, I will continue to stand with them, come hell or high water. This much I ​suspect is true​ of the majority of the Millennial generation.


I live a Mormonism that is engaged in the issues of the world, chief among them being Climate Change. I am an environmental activist by profession, working with the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance. My lived faith cares very very deeply about the Earth. I care so much that I blog about it, with many others, at ​Bristlecone Firesides​.
And I don’t know how to live a Mormonism that is politically detached from trying to better the world. There is a lot going on these days and I make a living by rolling up my sleeves and getting my hands dirty doing something about it. I will actually show up to protests and marches and strikes. And I suspect the ​same is true​ of the majority of the Millennial generation.


I want to make Mormonism weird again. The more I lean into the oddity of our peculiarity, the more I enjoy myself. I’ve found Mormonism to be ugly-beautiful in that curious sort of way. And the more I can embrace that strange Mormon aesthetic, the better. In fact, I’m also a member of the ​Arch-Hive​, an art collective that is trying to do just that.


I live a Mormonism that is unafraid of secularism or science. Truth is broad and far-reaching and I make a practice of the original Mormon ethic of gathering truth from all corners of the Earth. I want to understand the Earth, the world, and all things as they really are. And that sometimes means holding truth, faith, and uncertainty loosely together without fear or panic. I’ve grown fond of this lovingly-engaged uncertain and fearless faith of mine.
I live Mormonism in a number of ways. Not all worth elucidating. But let it be said that my Mormonism is as ​diverse as my life​.


No Golden Trumpet
When Moroni lost his trumpet on the morning of the Coronaquake, I saw something. The Earth is shifting and the ground is shaking. Change in the Church is as inevitable as a generational turnover. After the Honor Code debacle and protests, the change is already underway. What that change will be exactly is hard to say. It will probably look more like repotting an ever-growing plant and loosening the roots. But as my generation picks up the mantle of Mormonism once again, that the community will change is all but assured.


Golden Moroni is the ubiquitous symbol of modern Mormonism. Proclaiming the clear resounding message of the Gospel to the world. But without that trumpet, what I saw was Moroni with his fist held high—proclaiming power ​with t​he people, strength ​through​ diversity, and solidarity ​with​ the world. This is captured well in the header image I chose, taken by ​The Hunchback of Temple Square​ on the morning of Salt Lake’s Coronaquake. Perhaps, as Moroni dropped his horn, he heralded the end of one era and rise of another. Perhaps the Church, in the hands of Millennials, will proclaim the Gospel by rolling up its institutional sleeves to stand with the world. Time will tell.
Be patient with us as we gain our spiritual sea-legs. Being a Mormon in this turbulent world from the Millennial perspective has never been done before. Give us time and we’ll get there. Undoubtedly with many mistakes along the way, as all generations have before. But with diligence and compassion, we’ll take up Mormonism once again.

Comments

  1. The work of proclaiming the gospel to the world and to the dead has stopped. At least as far as the saving ordinances are concerned.

    It was the work of a small quake that did the trump in. And an even smaller virus.

  2. joshua h says:

    Since President Nelson is so determined to erase “Mormon” from the lexicon, perhaps we should be removing the Moronis from our temples. I get it that we don’t use the cross like other Christian churches. But I’ve always found it strange that on our most holy buildings, the House of the Lord, we have a guy blowing a trumpet. Not exactly the best imagery if we are trying to convey that we are THE Church of Christ.

    So maybe the earthquake did us a favor in that Moroni died in SLC of natural causes. Now let’s follow mother nature’s example and remove them from the rest of the temples where they currently reside. Satan won’t be happy.

  3. When I started reading your post I was thinking of something similar to

    I live a Mormonism that is unafraid of secularism or science.

    While I doubt it would ever happen, I really think it would be helpful to have an official message along the lines of “We need less thinking like Joseph Fielding Smith and more thinking like B. H. Roberts and Henry Eyring”. Okay fine, don’t call out names. Maybe something like “Young Earth Creationism is wrong. It’s good that your faith is so strong that you want to put it above some pretty basic and well established science, but that’s neither better nor best. It’s a misapplication of putting your faith in God above the arm of the flesh. We’re supposed to be learning from the best books. Here are some good examples of how you are supposed to trust in God…”
    I’m rather confident that it’s not officially taught in the church that ignorance is an expression of faith, but we get enough of that from other religious conservative American’s that it leaks into how many members exercise their faith. Mixing culture and religion, and looking for a common identity and all that. I really do think that either correlated lessons or General Conference talks need to show examples of learning from the best books, and struggles of fusing earthly education with gospel education.

  4. Jack Hughes says:

    Perhaps it was all for the best that Moroni “lost” his horn, because he never really had it to begin with. Nowhere in scripture is Moroni described specifically as a trumpet-playing angel, let alone the Church’s official hood ornament. The anachronism of a 3rd century Mesoamerican soldier holding a renaissance-era European brass natural horn should have been a clue–Moroni, whether or not he was ever a real person, is largely a manufactured cultural icon, kind of like a lot of things in the Church. If there is one lesson to be learned by the presidency of RMN, it’s that there are (almost) no more sacred cows.

  5. Thank you. Fellow millennial. This is what my Mormonism looks like too.

    “I live a big Mormonism that is unconcerned with being ​right​. Being right was a big deal to me when I was a teenager and I would often wield the ​truth​ as a sword against myself and those I cared about. After many years of learned humility and lessons in compassion, I care more about creating space for a diversity of perspectives and holding the voices of the marginalized high. My Mormonism is more about ‘yes, and’ than ‘no, but.'”

    1000x. And amen to everything else. I hope this is the Church we can create for our children. I feel so strongly about the importance of a loving community in which to develop spiritually. This my home. I want it to be a place where my children feel welcome and accepted, and so do everyone else’s.

  6. A Turtle Named Mack says:

    Thank you for these thoughts, Madison. I often feel like many of these proposed changes in approach, so often experienced by (not exclusively) Millennials, won’t happen until one of them (us?) makes their way into the upper body of Church governance. But then I am reminded that folks who think like this, regardless of their faith/righteousness/devotion, are rarely given those callings. That’s because those who issue the calling are looking for people just like them. Now, the type of person they’re looking for may increasingly represent a small minority of Church members, but they only need to find 12 of them (1 new every few years), so I guess it’s really not that tough. When I look at where the Church is headed I can point to a number of things that have changed for the better (from my perspective), but have to be honest and note that the gap between the thinking of senior Church leaders and younger generations is widening, not narrowing. So, I can’t really count that as progress.

  7. Wondering says:

    I’d be interested in Jack Hughes’ list of remaining sacred cows. I would never have thought there were “(almost) no more.”

  8. I have to agree with Turtle Named Mack, although I’d love to be wrong. I’d love to envision a big, wild, inclusive, dynamic Mormonism. I think that’s possible. But I also think it’s possible that the institutional Church just continues down a conservative, fundamentalist path and most people who think like you are either sidelined or leave or are occasionally found in liberal pockets in certain areas.

  9. hopeful baby boomer says:

    “What that change will be exactly is hard to say. It will probably look more like repotting an ever-growing plant and loosening the roots.”

    What perfect imagery. A hope that the church can retain all of it’s goodness, but be expanded and refreshed and given room to grow into the church that it is meant to be.

  10. Marrissa says:

    Upvote to the plug for religious environmentalism, including via political organizing. Upvotes as well for getting over the obsession with exclusive rightness and for embracing sexual orientation and gender diversity. I’m adding ending discrimination on the basis of sex. This is a pretty good summary of what millennials I know want. Also transparency, and for social ‘belonging’ to be possible for people at a range of orthodoxy levels.

  11. Gilgamesh says:

    I am responding, not to Elisa per se, but the concern that the church, ” just continues down a conservative, fundamentalist path.”

    One of the things I appreciate about the church is its willingness to wrestle with the bigger issues. It may not be as liberal or progressive as some may want, but it is willing to struggle with some of the issues of the day. Other “conservative” churches, such as the Southern Baptist Convention, Eastern Orthodox Church or even the Roman Catholic Church are not even taking on many of the issues the church wrestles with. None of these groups would have an official website, formerly “mormonandgay.lds.org”(now http://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/gay/). While it is clunky and not perfect in many ways, the church is engaging in the discussion, unlike many other “conservative, fundamentalist” churches.

  12. Fellow Millennial says:

    Striking that your version of lived Mormonism doesn’t once reference Jesus. Perhaps I shouldn’t be so surprised; many in our generation are more concerned with remaking the Church in our image than remaking ourselves in God’s image.

  13. A Turtle Named Mack says:

    While the OP might not explicitly invoke Jesus, the image this re-imagined organization casts is fundamentally more Christ-like than what we currently have. Expansive, engaged, accepting, responsive – sounds like the guy I read about in scripture. Referencing Jesus is nice, emulating Him (even without reference) is better.

  14. @Gilgamesh that’s a fair point. In fact it was not even until recently that it dawned on me, “Oh my goodness! *This* is a fundamentalist church!” because it doesn’t feel as much like it … except in certain General Conference talks. I think there’s lots of room for wrestling and change–part of our DNA. I just feel like lately (many of) the Q15 act as though, as much as we talk about an “ongoing restoration”, some of the big issues (like LGBTQ rights, gender equality, etc.) have already been wrestled to the ground and decided for forever. And that their views of the restoration and scripture are pretty fundamentalist and literal.

    I think there’s room for both the literalists and the more nuanced and there’s something to be learned from both. But sometimes it feels like the literalists run the show and the rest just quietly coexist.

  15. Gilgamesh, none of these groups “would” have a website? What does that mean? Have you checked? Just searching “Catholic Church and same-sex attraction” on Google, several Catholic-sponsored websites supportive of gays and lesbians came up (supportive as in approaching homosexuality from a similar angle as the LDS Church’s website). True, these are hosted by individual dioceses, but even the official Vatican website seems pretty sparse compared to lds.org (or whatever it’s called these days). Even though both churches are hierarchical, the Vatican website isn’t nearly as comprehensive.

  16. @fellowmillennial – The OP does reference Jesus by citing Adam Miller’s statement that millennials must “rethink the whole tradition . . . in order to embody Christ anew in this passing world.”

  17. So embracing a progressive millennial agenda of gay rights, environmental activism and female priesthood ordination will attract or retain more folks to the Church than it repels?

    Interesting theory. Only problem is that progressives, in research I’ve seen, are much less interested in religion than conservatives, so you are trying to appeal to a group with waning interest in religion to begin with. Not a great pool of potential converts or long term members to pull from.

    On an empirical basis, take a look at denominations that have tried this approach. They seem to have accelerated the departure of conservative members while attracting few additional liberal members. They tend to see membership shrink at a faster pace than their conservative brethren.

    On the positive side, they do get more praise from non churchgoing progressives than conservative denominations. :-)

  18. Kristine says:

    One has to use a pretty idiosyncratic definition of “fundamentalist” to make the LDS Church fit it. It’s certainly conservative, but not fundamentalist except maybe in its mostly literalist approach to scriptural texts. Even there, though, “as far as it is translated correctly” puts us very far outside of most definitions of fundamentalism, and the complete lack of creeds, general friendliness to science (even official neutrality on evolution) and technology, and encouragement of secular education argue strongly against the label. There’s a decent argument to be made (as Kendall White did) that Mormons tilted strongly in a neo-orthodox direction in the 1970s-90s, but the influence of that strain of thinking seems to me to have waned significantly.

  19. Aussie Mormon says:

    We need to be careful in making changes purely to attract people.
    Look at the Community of Christ.
    It started as essentially a no-polygamy patriarchal presidency version of the mainstream church.
    Now, yes, it has women being ordained, and is LGBT+ friendly, but it also has the following:
    *Book of Mormon not being mandatory
    *much of the PoGP not being scripture
    *trinitarian (the non-lds kind) view of the godhead,
    *no temple ordinances (baptisms for dead, endowments, sealing),
    *de-emphasis of the “one true church”.
    *God is not an exalted man
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_Community_of_Christ_and_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints#Summary_chart

    It’s hard to to bring back weird mormonism if you remove the weirdness and become what is essentially yet another generic Christian church to attract certain demographics.

  20. your food allergy is real says:

    I think the point of the OP was not so much about ways to attract certain demographics, but more about the ways the rising generation lives its lds faith; what we can expect from them. In other words, not a choice for the church leadership to make.

    “But rather than telling the Church all the things they can do to retain my generation and those that follow, I’m going to speak to what Mormonism looks like when it’s lived by me.”

  21. Aussie Mormon, most of the things you list aren’t the result of wanting to attract more members. They’re the result of a dichotomy between the public and private church. Joseph Smith III genuinely believed that his father didn’t practice polygamy, as did many other members. The PoGP wasn’t canonized as LDS scripture until almost 1880, and it never held the place in RLDS theology that it did here. As to temple ordinances, those weren’t exactly universal at first and were highly correlated to being a part of the inner circle/anointed quorum and left a bad taste in some of the original RLDS members’ mouths. They had valid theological reasons to not practice temple ordinances. It’s worth noting as well that the RLDS church never really took an official stand on baptisms for the dead, at least not in the early days.

    So there are some recent innovations like ordaining women and moving away from exclusivity, but much of the things you list had nothing to do with attracting converts and everything to do with a different interpretation/emphasis of the doctrines Joseph Smith taught. Have you heard of Kirtland/Nauvoo Mormonism?

  22. A Turtle Named Mack says:

    I guess I don’t see any of the “changes” that might be proposed as having the intent to attract members. Rather, I think this is more about retaining those who are already members. We know that retention is SO MUCH more effective than conversion, but we seem to be hemorrhaging members of recent generations. When a person has been raised in a culture, and taught to believe certain things from a young age, it takes much effort to leave that behind. Yet, it’s happening. Most of those I speak with really want to stay. They really do. Letting them leave, hoping to maintain the status quo and attract others to replace them, is not the path to a robust community of Saints.

  23. What if this whole time, the angel who came to Joseph was actually Nephi or Mormon or Ether? Regardless, I imagine it shouldn’t surprise anyone if the statue is not returned to the top of the SLC temple when renovations are completed.

  24. Don:

    I would say there is a zero probability that the statue of Moroni does not remain atop the SL Temple. Given a version of Moroni was on the original Nauvoo temple, the precedent has been set.

    The statue, sans trump, is still there as of the other day, btw.

  25. ATNM:

    My comment was aimed at both retention of existing members and attracting new ones.

    As Aussie Mormon alludes to, the CoC has embraced a more progressive form of Christianity starting in the 1980s. Result? Losses of entire congregations of conservative members and a shrinking membership.

    Trying to appeal to one group’s desires without alienating another group is a rather tricky business.

    Of course if the Church is just a social construct that we make in our own image, then what is it worth to anyone?

  26. To all those people talking about “appealing to demographics”–I mean, imagine for a moment if you were to tell someone like Brother Young that the church should embrace giving blacks the priesthood, renounce polygamy, allow women to serve as witnesses, etc.

    That person would mostly likely respond the same way you are. And they would be wrong.

    It’s not about some “progressive” agenda. It’s about what’s right. Though, of course, as conservatives, you would never see it that way.

  27. As long as you frame your pov as ‘right’, I guess you win.

    Unless, of course, your right isn’t the Lords right. Seems like the people in the great and spacious building were pretty sure they were ‘right’. Do you claim to know the Lord’s will in all things?

    I seem to recall times when the majority was not ‘right’ and the Lords people were few.

    Perhaps we could just hold an election and decide what is ‘right’. Eh?

  28. Geoff-Aus says:

    No jb, we could look at the teachings of Christ, and try to get the church in line with Christs gospel, where there is no discrimination, a lot of love for our fellows, and all are alike unto God.

  29. Kristine N says:

    I love the interpretation of Moroni’s empty hand as an upraised fist, proclaiming the power of the gospel. It’s a lovely image.

  30. Jb, I see. You feel, claim even, YOU are right. It’s almost like I didn’t address that possibility in the situation in my original post.

    And then, true to form, you respond exactly the way I predicted. And I’m not trying bash conservatives. I’m saying that, by definition, addressing, considering, and dealing with change isn’t particularly their forte. Which is fine. Good. Necessary even.

    And I get it, you don’t have to engage with the difficulties in Church history if you don’t want to; you don’t have to acknowledge testimonies of people other than those who agree with you; you can dismiss entire generations with a remark about ‘great and spacious buildings’ and majorities (although, your claim there doesn’t help your argument); and, finally, you are, of course, free to claim whatever you want and back it up however you want.

    That’s sort of the point. People, prophets, members, etc. in both the past and present claim(ed) to know what is right when it comes to policies (heck, even, doctrines) and even prophets have disagreed and altered their positions on significant issues over time. It’s that search for the ‘right’ that matters. Not who is ‘right’ at any given time. You seem to suggest that people who have a different view than you aren’t interested in what is right, only in getting what they want or evil or have no foundation or misguided (or something–beats me what your actual argument is). I’m just hear to suggest that perhaps that isn’t charitable, helpful, or true (as the past has suggested.)

  31. If the church is hemorrhaging members, it’s because we’re doing our best to be lukewarm to accommodate those members who have cold testimonies of the restored gospel.

    So the cold members and the hot ones eventually get disillusioned.

    The church could attract 500,000 members next year and just as many the year after with just a few traditional policy changes that would have large impact and get people excited (and others scared).

    People in every age from the BoM, to early restoration, to now have clamored for change in their lives. Real change, spiritually and physically.

    It’s no secret or coincidence that God has always had an immigrant people and the largest outpourings of the spirit have been connected with actual gatherings of people.

    We call 2 hour symbolic gatherings on Sunday a gathering. You don’t get the same effect of baptism by immersion with a spritz of water, and you certainly don’t get the same effect of gathering a people by taking a couple hours off TV/internet/work time to schlepp over to the church building and pray that you might feel something that can help you do better next week.

    Watch the converts flock to a church that is gathering the Lord’s people.

    We have the space, the assets, and the populations of the world are willing.

    The zoning, the legal issues, xenophobia, language, skill, job barriers etc are real.

    But in the restoration period, the people flocked to a vision that necessitated them uprooting their lives and building new ones. There’s a lot of literal and symbolic power there. The same was true for
    Lehi, his descendants and some of the greatest examples of spiritually in history.

    That will actually bring numbers and bring many to know God because they will be sacrifice and enduring all kinds of opposition to make those changes.

    This other stuff discussed here is just tinkering with the rules of an established and largely rejected game, and thinking now everyone will want to play if you just change the game time, etc.

  32. jimbob says:

    I think we made a major mistake by embracing conservative politics as our quasi-doctrines in the 1960s, even though our leadership believed in good faith that they were doing nothing more than embracing self-evidently “right” principles. And I think we would make the same mistake here in the other direction if we followed the OP’s advice, however apodictic the “rightness” of those current politics seem to the average millennial. Over the years, I’ve grown leery of anyone who is pretty sure their politics are God’s politics–right, left, or otherwise.

  33. your food allergy is real says:

    Again, the OP explicitly is not making any advice. The point being made is that a significant portion of the rising generation lives, worships, and believes that way whether the current church leadership likes it or not.

  34. Bro. B. says:

    I’m from the baby boomer generation and I can’t really disagree with what you’ve said. Change is inevitable, but it may be another 40-50years.

  35. Billy Possum says:

    This was a joy to read, Madison. And in true environmentalist fashion, you’ve woven literary device together with science in a way that brings me to my feet. (It’s obvious you’re steeped in the usual suspects – Leopold, Carson, Abbey, McKibben.) Thank you for saying what I had neither the time nor the talent to say, for introducing me to Bristlecone Firesides, and for your work for the Earth.

  36. I really do not believe the central focus of any religion should be the rights of some group such as LGBTQ people or a particular race or ethnicity. I also believe environmentalism is important but not within the main focus of religion.
    Religion deals with our relationship to God and what He expects of us. Trying to hijack a religion and modify its focus to meet an individual’s own interests is wrong. It reminds me of an attempt certain people made years ago to take over the board of directors of the Sierra Club because the organization was flush with assets, assets they wished to turn to an entirely different mission than that usually associated with the Sierra Club.. It was also practiced by those who succeeded in taking over leadership of Christianity in order to mold it according to their own ideas following the death of Jesus’ apostles. Out of this was born the Unholy Roman Empire and the Crusades. Have we in the LDS faith lost all sense of history?
    Joseph Smith sought knowledge from God about his standing and ability to be forgiven. He wanted light and truth and had not been able to find it by questioning the ministers of the day. God revealed to Joseph that that was because those ministers lacked that knowledge. Only God could provide it, not the well-meaning but ultimately flawed reasoning of man.
    I trust our leaders, not to be perfect and not to have all the answers, but to continue to seek light from God and not from their own minds. I trust God to reveal much more about the life test homosexuality visits on some, its meaning and ultimate resolution. And I will accept whatever He reveals, but am not particularly interested in the musings of others, no matter how well meant.
    And if you really wish to confront climate change, become an engineer, not an activist. They provide solutions not blogs.

  37. Right Boomer?
    Okay Sillie Millies.
    Good grief. What an absurd essay.

  38. Terry, making LGBT rights the central focus of a religion would be no more absurd than what we have now, which is that *denying* their rights is one of our key doctrines, or at least practices. If Dallin H. Oaks outlives Russell M. Nelson, it may well become *the* key doctrine.

    But to be clear, I don’t think the OP is suggesting that LGBT rights should be the central focus of the Church. Just that their rights should be important just like everyone else’s.

  39. David B says:

    Ziff, denying LGBTQ people their rights is hardly one of the LDS Church’s doctrines. What a ridiculous statement. I have heard Dallin Oakes speak on many topics. Claiming that one you personally disagree with will be made a key doctrine if he becomes president is also absurd. You are assuming that your beliefs carry far too much weight both in the Church and the world. A generational problem of most Millies.

  40. Geoff-Aus says:

    Terry, You say you trust our leaders to seek light from God not from their own minds. Will you recognize and accept it?
    Pres Nelson put out a statement this week. Why this week, and what did he say?

    He said they were thankfull for the leaders that kept us safe. Not the ones who want to get us back to work, against scientific/medical advice.
    He also said they would be very cautious about returning the church to normal. Is he saying it is too soon to start returning to normal?

    Was he too subtle? Does he need to be more direct to overcome peoples politics?
    If science is correct America is in for another wave of deaths, as a result of these decisions by leaders, and it is already past 75,000 deaths.

  41. Geoff-Aus, I do not understand the subtext behind your question. Of course I believe President Nelson’s advice and video. Of course there are going to be many more deaths, probably 200,000 total in US before the end of 2020 unless a treatment or vaccine is found. Anyone with any knowledge of addition can do the math on that. A thousand deaths a day equals 30,000 a month. Flattening the curve was never about decreasing the total number of deaths by some miraculous number. It was about spreading them out over a longer period of time to keep from overwhelming the medical system and to buy us time to search for a solution. Perhaps one found in time to save some of those lives that would have been lost but not remotely all of them.
    And by the way, if the numbers in the Bible are accurate, we get to look forward to the death of 2 billion people before the Second Coming. So this us just the warm up.

  42. Jeanette says:

    Geoff-Aus, there seems to be some idea underlying your comment that people who believe in the prophets want to pick and choose what we believe. We don’t.
    If you notice, President Nelson had us fast and pray not only for protection but also for getting our economy back on its feet. He asked us to seek the Lord’s help in controlling the pandemic, not in eliminating it. Was he too subtle there or was he aware that the prophecies of great destruction on us because of our pride and disobedience are being fulfilled?
    Abraham Lincoln prayed repeatedly for an end to the US Civil War. His generals let slip away a number of opportunities to capture General Lee’s army. President Lincoln finally came to accept that the people of this country had a price to pay for slavery and the war would not end until they had paid it, in death and destruction.
    We too have debts to pay, for greed that has turned many of our low wage workers into veritable slaves so the rich can live as kings, for tolerating abortion and the deaths of millions of unborn children, for sexual trafficking, for verbal hand waving that excuses adultery in our politicians if they belong to our political parties. Pride, greed, immorality. All being stripped naked by a virus.

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